re: Consider Paul Hornung and Gale Sayers

in 5 seasons before shredding his knee Sayers:

NFL Rushing rank per season:2,1,3,5,1
Rushing TDS:2,2,4, not top 10, 3
yards per rush:3,2,4,1,6
rushing yards per game:3,1,3,1,1,
all purpose yards:1,1,1,3,2
kickoff return avg:2,1,3,1,10

first team all pro all 5 seasons


LINK

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Didn't Sayers destroy his knee the first time in year 4? He came back and led the NFL in rushing with a bad knee in year 5. Look at this stats for year 5. Sayers had no long runs in year 5. His shiftiness and explosion were gone. Year 5 he accomplilshed puely on heart.

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yes. After year 5, or towards the end, he shredded his other knee even worse and was done.

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Also, please post how he ranked in the NFL in rushing, kick and punt returns, and all purpose yards for his first 5 seasons before he shredded his knee.

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why do you keep avoiding doing this? these are his relevant stats. I did it for you above. The other guys you have mentioned were not as dominant relative to their peers as Sayers. Plus, it was 14 game seasons back then, not 16. Comparing players across eras is silly. A true reflection of dominance is performance relative to their own peers of the same era.

He changed the game by making kick returns, RBs as pass catchers, and run plays relying on space/quickness rather than traditional power formations all much bigger parts of football...as well as forcing defenses to account for such schemes.

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I'm still waiting for you and Dukkev to enlighten me

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you can start with they played fewer games and had different rules that favored the defense. It was different era, where were those ranked in terms of all time leaders when they retired?

Also once upon a time, people didn't judge individual players based on team accomplishments only the way some do today. They used to consider it a shame that great players like. Ted Williams, Ernie Banks, Gayle Sayers, Fran Tarenton etc where never on championship teams. They didn't hold it against those guys.

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When Brian Mitchell dons the yellow jacket, I'll respond again to your vague post about how he "changed the game"

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Amadeo

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Why don't you learn context first.

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exactly, its called context.

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Context is the age-old bullshite argument for people who got nothing else.

Point out any of Sayers all-time numbers that even sniff the top 25. There isn't a starting RB in the NFL today that propably want finish with more career rushing yds and receiving yds.

Yeah, I get it. "Promising career cut short", "he has to be judged in the context of his era". As if today they play flag football in the NFL.

The history of the NFL is loaded with those types of players who will never be inducted. And no! Caring for a dying Brian Piccolo doesn't count in Sayers favor either


It's contradictory to throw out the phrase context of his era and then talk about all-purpose yds to justify your claim.

In the "context" of Sayer's era most every team in the NFL used their best player as KO and Punt Returners. There's a reason why the word return SPECIALIST is a recently coined term. Is that any reason to keep Ricky Watters whose numbers dwarf that of Sayers from the HOF.

The argument I used against Sayers being in the HOF was solely based on career stats and even though he doesn't rank in any significant catagory (not even close), is still open to reasonable opposing arguments. Instead I get the hiding behind "different era" bullshite used by overly romanticized old men, unknowlegeable sports talk show host and H-town Tiger.

.....Something to consider next time you lecture me about context.

But while we are on the subject of context, I would rather be chased by "Crazy Nuts" O'Hallahan than say, Ray Lewis. Different era my arse.

Amadeo
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2004
244 posts



You cannot be this stupid, can you?

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You compare players to other players in their own era, not to players in other eras.



You mean when Hornung and Sayers ran in the run first/pass second NFL of the 60's with 240 pound linemen and 5.0 dbs

I'm still waiting for you and Dukkev to enlighten me

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its impossible to compare players of today with those of the past because there are so many different circumstances

I think we all know that todays athlete is better but we cant retroactively go back and start taking people out of the hall of fame b/c they wouldnt be good today or their numbers are shite compared to todays players.

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The other more important point you miss, is you have to compare players to how they were compared to their peers.

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OK!