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NCAA Selection Committee Hypocrisy

Posted on 3/17/09 at 12:01 am
Posted by tiger20
Member since Dec 2004
5508 posts
Posted on 3/17/09 at 12:01 am
The NCAA selection committee continues to exhibit great hypocrisy. For years we have heard about the premium the committe places on the lat 10 games. Compare the South region #5 Illinois, # 7 Clemson, #8 LSU.

Illinois

5 seed
24-9
11-7 Big Ten
Big Ten runnerup
6-4 over last ten

Clemson
7 seed
23-8
9-7 ACC
5th ACC
5-5 last ten
Began season 16-0
7-8 over last 15

LSU
8 seed
26-7
13-3
SEC Champions
7-3 last ten
14-4 last 18
2 losses in reg season after clinching title
Posted by Bad Cat
Painted Post, NY
Member since Jan 2004
12091 posts
Posted on 3/17/09 at 12:05 am to
The NCAA selection committee hates LSU--
Posted by csand12
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2007
562 posts
Posted on 3/17/09 at 12:10 am to
Ok first of all, the SEC is absolutely terrible this year, awful. That's the main reason that LSU didn't get respect this year, because of how terrible the conference was.
Posted by Jimmy2Times
Powell
Member since Dec 2007
495 posts
Posted on 3/17/09 at 12:14 am to
I'm sure the job isn't easy and won't make everyone happy but yeah they talk out of both sides of their mouth. quote " we look at the entire body of work" bullshite...Minnesota does not get in if they don't beat Lousiville. Mich only gets in because they beat UCLA and Duke. Syracuse gets a #3 seed?? why? because they looked good in Big East tourney and the committe has their lips all over Big East Caulk. Arizona should not be in, LSU and Purdue should be ranked higher, Hate to say it but Penn St should be in and so should Auburn. JMO
Posted by BraveTiger225
Atlanta, GA
Member since May 2008
17662 posts
Posted on 3/17/09 at 12:17 am to
Another person letting one criterion explain the "hypocrisy" of the committee.

Strength of schedule, out-of-conference strength of schedule, wins on the road/neutral courts.

And, by the way, they now use last 12 games and not 10. Changed that a couple of years ago.

This is nothing new. Teams get seeded above or below where the general public thinks they should be every single year.

Posted by tiger20
Member since Dec 2004
5508 posts
Posted on 3/17/09 at 12:18 am to
quote:

Ok first of all, the SEC is absolutely terrible this year, awful. That's the main reason that LSU didn't get respect this year, because of how terrible the conference was


While not one of it's better years teh SEC was still the 6th best league RPI. Given that scenario it is difficult to accept that the schampion is not one of the top 25-30 eams in the country.

Even if an 8 seed is correct Clemson and Illinois should not be seeded higher given their play down the stretch as opposed to the play of a conference champ clearly coasting after the title
Posted by BraveTiger225
Atlanta, GA
Member since May 2008
17662 posts
Posted on 3/17/09 at 12:19 am to
quote:

play of a conference champ clearly coasting after the title


Losses down the stretch are still losses, coasting or not. Please. That argument is absurd.
Posted by tiger20
Member since Dec 2004
5508 posts
Posted on 3/17/09 at 12:21 am to
quote:

Losses down the stretch are still losses, coasting or not. Please. That argument is absurd.


Fair enough, LSU had a better record down the stretch than either Clemson or Illinois. A last twelve criteria would be even more favorable to the Tigers.
Posted by BraveTiger225
Atlanta, GA
Member since May 2008
17662 posts
Posted on 3/17/09 at 12:29 am to
Tiger20, if you really want to expose a flaw in the system, then let's explore the major tool that gets all the play - the RPI.

For those who don't know, the RPI is calcuated by the following:

50% winning percentage
25% opponents winning percentage
25% opponent's opponents' winning percentage

Consider our OOC schedule, which included a lot of in-state schools that play in the SWAC, Summit League, Southland, Sun Belt, etc.

Clemson and Illinois play far superior schedules based on how the RPI is calculated. Their opponents are off playing better teams, in higher rated conferences. Let's face it, the SWAC is as low as it gets, and the conferences of the other in-state schools is rather awful.

Are there flaws? Sure. But let's start with this one and not the subjective ones.
Posted by LSUMONSTER
DALLAS,TX
Member since Oct 2005
2914 posts
Posted on 3/17/09 at 12:34 am to
quote:

I'm sure the job isn't easy and won't make everyone happy but yeah they talk out of both sides of their mouth. quote " we look at the entire body of work" bullshite...Minnesota does not get in if they don't beat Lousiville. Mich only gets in because they beat UCLA and Duke. Syracuse gets a #3 seed?? why? because they looked good in Big East tourney and the committe has their lips all over Big East Caulk. Arizona should not be in, LSU and Purdue should be ranked higher, Hate to say it but Penn St should be in and so should Auburn. JMO


+1.

Excellent post.
Posted by LSUMONSTER
DALLAS,TX
Member since Oct 2005
2914 posts
Posted on 3/17/09 at 12:38 am to
T20,

For a change, I'm with you on this one.

May be the committee penalized us for our OOC schedule and the fact that the SEC is down this year???

Anyway, what is your opinion on Butler and your prediction on the game.

I will hang up and listen.

Posted by csand12
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2007
562 posts
Posted on 3/17/09 at 12:49 am to
quote:

and the committe has their lips all over Big East


The Big East was a stellar conference this year. The Big east and ACC are always strong basketball conferences and they should be given a lot of credit for that, just like the SEC is given the same credit in football.

As LSU was ranked 6th in RPI among conferences, how many "major" conferences were ranked ahead of them? I don't know so I'm asking.
Posted by tiger20
Member since Dec 2004
5508 posts
Posted on 3/17/09 at 1:07 am to
quote:

Anyway, what is your opinion on Butler and your prediction on the game.
.


In many ways LSU will be playing against LSU. LSU is the better team and has better athletes and more experienced players.

What LSU has to do is re-establish it's confident identity, the one that rolled to 13 straight SEC wins. That is a tremendous accomplishmetn regardless of how strong the league is. They need to shoot with confidence and expect that their teammates will help out on the offensive boards if the shot is missed.

Then they must continue to defend as they have virtually every game, hold Butler to 37% FG or less, not get over anxious and send a good free throw shooting team to the line. They must be alert to the slow motion offense and guard the back door cuts.

Finally, CJ has to defend Howard in the paint. Howard is good, but is no Varnado, Nevill or even the Xavier center. He is like a less physical Patrick Patterson, whom CJ played well.

Look for Butler's pattern offense to hold the scoring down, but the Tigers experience brings home the win.

LSU 61
Butler 52
Posted by LSUMONSTER
DALLAS,TX
Member since Oct 2005
2914 posts
Posted on 3/17/09 at 1:09 am to
quote:

Look for Butler's pattern offense to hold the scoring down, but the Tigers experience brings home the win.

LSU 61
Butler 52


I like your prediction.
Posted by Zamoro10
Member since Jul 2008
14743 posts
Posted on 3/17/09 at 5:28 am to


Excellent post :lol:

Arizona only beat the conference champions of three conferences...they also drilled Gonzaga who St. Marys got drilled in their last game.

Even poor Dickie had to admit after he was hammered by Digger and Jay Bilas that Arizona was the better team...

This whole Arizona didn't deserve is so stupid when it's supposed to be about the best 32 at large teams.

Even the Committee Chairman stated...it's no longer about whose hot, we want to make the regular season important, it's about the body of work. And Arizona's body of work absolutely dwarfs St. Mary's or any other bubble team. Look it up. They actually scheduled real teams unlike Auburn and Florida and YIKES! LSU!!!! Oh brother!!! Here come the brigade!!!

Bascially the SEC was just like the WAC this year and probably even worse...so, no St. Mary's didn't deserve to be in. The SEC in basketballl was really a kind of a poors man's Ivy Leauge in football this year. The absolute worst in the nation.

You beat Kansas on the road and beat Washington and beat UCLA...you're in the tournament.

That's what I love about the selection committee...they don't reward you for playing the Citadel like the BCS does. They are actually real students of the game and not not blind cheerleaders.

For anyone who derides the committee they are fools. They do a great job year in and year out. Far better than being prey to false perception. They actually do their homework and realize teams should be judged by who they beat or did not beat out of conference. Too bad the BCS doesn't realize this basic intelligent reality. Because if you disagree then you are truly not an honest person. How do we judge a conference...gee by how they performe out of conference...what a novel concept? Oh jeez...they don't want to be judged out of conferece...so they don't schedule...

I've never understood this...some would rather win a title playing nobody...Ohio St. then be judged against the best...and you all know who I am talking about. Just strange.

It's like the Red Sox saying they would rather beat the the fifth place team in the East instead of the Yankees and yet sitll feel REALLY GOOD ABOUT IT.

Strange.

You need to start a real out of conference schedule for anyone to take any title this conference has seriously in the next ten years. Trust me, there will be a retroactive backlash. And I will lead the fight.
Posted by Ice Cold
Over Macho Grande
Member since Jun 2004
18741 posts
Posted on 3/17/09 at 5:34 am to
quote:

While not one of it's better years teh SEC was still the 6th best league RPI.
So now being 6th in conference RPI is something crow about? ACC, Big East, Big10, Big12, and Pac 10 are ahead, and you're pissed about LSU's seed because it won the regular season title in the weakest major conference?

Bottom line, LSU's OOC schedule/record killed them. If they're better now, they'll show it on Thursday.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Carolinas
Member since Sep 2003
124668 posts
Posted on 3/17/09 at 6:28 am to
quote:

For anyone who derides the committee they are fools. They do a great job year in and year out.
Well then 2009 is an exception.

The SEC may suck in a big way this year, but only 3 teams in the tourney is as ridiculous as the Big East being "given" 3 #1's. Yes the BigEast was good, but compared to the field, they are not three-number-one-seeds good. The Big 10 placed 7 teams compared to the SEC with 3? Really? The Big 10 was that much better? Memphis being slapped with a #2 and then tossed out west. That's a "great job"?

Maybe you're right. Maybe the three SEC teams will all be out after Round One. Maybe the BigEast is leagues better than the ACC as the seedings would indicate. (Syracuse @ #3 . . . . are you kidding me). Maybe the SEC is high school caliber compared to the Big10. I just don't share that opinion.




Posted by Templars
Member since Oct 2005
2973 posts
Posted on 3/17/09 at 7:06 am to
Well hate is a strong word - I think its pretty clear that being seeded 8th and 9th is in most cases, the early exit seeds.

The winner always plays the #1 seed of that region. So 2 of the 3 SEC teams in the tourney, should they escape their first round games, will be matched up against #1 seeds in the second round.

If you are going to win the region, you have to play them at some point anyway like LSU beating #1 Duke and then #2 Texas.

There is no secret conspiracy, but you have to admit its pretty interesting that early 2nd round exits to #1 seeds, are distinct possibilities.

Put another way, should they get by their 1st round opponents, 66% of the SEC teams in the tourney, are set to face #1 seeds in the second round.

Later, the pundits and blowhards will trumpet once again, that this is further "proof" of how far the SEC was down this year.
This post was edited on 3/17/09 at 7:10 am
Posted by csand12
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2007
562 posts
Posted on 3/17/09 at 9:49 am to
quote:

Excellent post

Arizona only beat the conference champions of three conferences...they also drilled Gonzaga who St. Marys got drilled in their last game.

Even poor Dickie had to admit after he was hammered by Digger and Jay Bilas that Arizona was the better team...

This whole Arizona didn't deserve is so stupid when it's supposed to be about the best 32 at large teams.

Even the Committee Chairman stated...it's no longer about whose hot, we want to make the regular season important, it's about the body of work. And Arizona's body of work absolutely dwarfs St. Mary's or any other bubble team. Look it up. They actually scheduled real teams unlike Auburn and Florida and YIKES! LSU!!!! Oh brother!!! Here come the brigade!!!

Bascially the SEC was just like the WAC this year and probably even worse...so, no St. Mary's didn't deserve to be in. The SEC in basketballl was really a kind of a poors man's Ivy Leauge in football this year. The absolute worst in the nation.

You beat Kansas on the road and beat Washington and beat UCLA...you're in the tournament.

That's what I love about the selection committee...they don't reward you for playing the Citadel like the BCS does. They are actually real students of the game and not not blind cheerleaders.

For anyone who derides the committee they are fools. They do a great job year in and year out. Far better than being prey to false perception. They actually do their homework and realize teams should be judged by who they beat or did not beat out of conference. Too bad the BCS doesn't realize this basic intelligent reality. Because if you disagree then you are truly not an honest person. How do we judge a conference...gee by how they performe out of conference...what a novel concept? Oh jeez...they don't want to be judged out of conferece...so they don't schedule...

I've never understood this...some would rather win a title playing nobody...Ohio St. then be judged against the best...and you all know who I am talking about. Just strange.

It's like the Red Sox saying they would rather beat the the fifth place team in the East instead of the Yankees and yet sitll feel REALLY GOOD ABOUT IT.

Strange.

You need to start a real out of conference schedule for anyone to take any title this conference has seriously in the next ten years. Trust me, there will be a retroactive backlash. And I will lead the fight.




Exactly
Posted by I-59 Tiger
Vestavia Hills, AL
Member since Sep 2003
36703 posts
Posted on 3/17/09 at 9:52 am to
quote:

Losses down the stretch are still losses, coasting or not


Connecticut lost its last two. How are they still a one seed and not a two seed ? This 'body of work' nonsense has too many holes in that theory.
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