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Is Vivek Ramaswamy right?

Posted on 12/21/25 at 8:54 pm
Posted by retired_tiger
Member since Oct 2025
509 posts
Posted on 12/21/25 at 8:54 pm
In a NY Times guest essay, Groyperism Isn’t Conservatism. It’s Anti-Americanism., Republican Ohio gubernatorial candidate Vivek Ramaswamy wrote:
quote:

There are two competing visions now emerging on the American right, and they are incompatible. One vision of American identity is based on lineage, blood and soil: Inherited attributes matter most. The purest form of an American is a so-called heritage American — one whose ancestry traces back to the founding of the United States or earlier.

This view is now popularized by the Groyper right, a rapidly ascendant online movement that argues for the creation of a white-centric identity. This is a predictable response — one that I anticipated in my 2022 book, “Nation of Victims” — to anti-white discrimination over the last half-decade, and it is no longer just a fringe viewpoint.

The alternative (and, in my view, correct) vision of American identity is based on ideals.

Americanness isn’t a scalar quality that varies based on your ancestry. It’s binary: Either you’re an American or you’re not. You are an American if you believe in the rule of law, in freedom of conscience and freedom of expression, in colorblind meritocracy, in the U.S. Constitution, in the American dream, and if you are a citizen who swears exclusive allegiance to our nation.

As Ronald Reagan quipped, you can go to live in France, but you can’t become a Frenchman; but anyone from any corner of the world can come to live in the United States and become an American. No matter your ancestry, if you wait your turn and obtain citizenship, you are every bit as American as a Mayflower descendant, as long as you subscribe to the creed of the American founding and the culture that was born of it. This is what makes American exceptionalism possible.


In a post in X, he further explained:

quote:

"It’s a time for choosing in the conservative movement," he wrote.

Ramaswamy said those who support trans athletes competing in sports consistent with their gender identity, advocate for affirmative action policies, or promote hatred toward any racial or ethnic groups lack "have no place in this movement."

He also rejected admiration for historical authoritarian figures, specifically naming Hitler and Stalin.

"If you believe in normalizing hate towards whites, blacks, Indians, or Jews, you have no place in this movement. If you believe Hitler was cool, you have no place in this movement. If you believe Stalin should be admired, you have no place in this movement. If you call Usha Vance a 'jeet,' you have no place in this movement."

He concluded, "And if you don’t have the guts to say these things without stuttering, then you have no place as a leader in this movement."



But despite conveying President Reagan's philosophy, some self-described conservatives were not happy with him.



Deport him? Why? And to where? He was born Cincinnati and lived his entire life in the United States.

Is being American a white-centric identity? Or is being American an identity based on ideals?
Posted by SallysHuman
Lady Palmetto Bug
Member since Jan 2025
14799 posts
Posted on 12/21/25 at 9:08 pm to
quote:

Is being American a white-centric identity? Or is being American an identity based on ideals?


Trick question if I ever saw one.

In general the ideals that are "American" are mostly held by white people. Not all white people. But white people.

Don't believe me? Ask the muthafukkin Smithsonian what "whiteness" is- the Smithsonian definition includes these "American" traits.

Yes. Being American is white-centric... but not because of racist exclusion- it is because other people groups just don't view Americanism the same. Again- Generally Speaking.

Another tack... not all white people are very "American", but most "Americans" are white people.

Posted by SallysHuman
Lady Palmetto Bug
Member since Jan 2025
14799 posts
Posted on 12/21/25 at 9:13 pm to
Posted by AlterEd
Cydonia, Mars
Member since Dec 2024
3136 posts
Posted on 12/21/25 at 9:15 pm to
Yes, unfortunately a lot of people on the right are fricking racists. And it's getting worse by the day.
This post was edited on 12/21/25 at 9:17 pm
Posted by Trevaylin
south texas
Member since Feb 2019
9692 posts
Posted on 12/21/25 at 9:16 pm to
So the term Groyperism is a whole lot like the new terminology of the left creating curious sounding words that would have no meaning in a 20 year old dictionary. Just to create confusion
Posted by SallysHuman
Lady Palmetto Bug
Member since Jan 2025
14799 posts
Posted on 12/21/25 at 9:18 pm to
quote:

Yes, unfortunately a lot of people on the right are fricking racists.


Look at the Smithsonian graphic I posted... it was created by their African American section.

Most everything on it is "American" values and ideals traditionally held.

But these ideals are derided... who is "racist"?
Posted by SallysHuman
Lady Palmetto Bug
Member since Jan 2025
14799 posts
Posted on 12/21/25 at 9:20 pm to
quote:

So the term Groyperism is a whole lot like the new terminology of the left creating curious sounding words that would have no meaning in a 20 year old dictionary. Just to create confusion


I guess... I have no idea wtf it means.

What I do know is that a lot of non white people don't see American traditions and values as very good things.

They don't want to be American so much as they wish to change what being American means while denigrating whites in the process.

Generally speaking...

Posted by lurking
Member since Nov 2022
789 posts
Posted on 12/21/25 at 9:23 pm to
quote:

unfortunately a lot of people on the right are fricking racists


If wanting to preserve and elevate white Christian culture and history makes me a racist, then so be it.

Good luck with Vivek.
Posted by AlterEd
Cydonia, Mars
Member since Dec 2024
3136 posts
Posted on 12/21/25 at 9:24 pm to
quote:

Generally speaking...


*Spoken in racist undertones*
Posted by SallysHuman
Lady Palmetto Bug
Member since Jan 2025
14799 posts
Posted on 12/21/25 at 9:26 pm to
quote:

Spoken in racist undertones*


I don't care if you think I'm racist.

Your words have no power over me.

I'm also a transphobe, a slight homophobe, a definite islamaphobe, any many other ists and phobes.
Posted by Redbone
my castle
Member since Sep 2012
20631 posts
Posted on 12/21/25 at 9:32 pm to
Me too.
Posted by AlterEd
Cydonia, Mars
Member since Dec 2024
3136 posts
Posted on 12/21/25 at 9:32 pm to
My racist comments were aimed at the people in the OP who are wanting Vivek "sent back." To where? He was fricking born in Ohio and has lived in America his entire life.

Yes, such comments are definitely racist.

I added a comment about you because you said that non-whites don't respect American culture, which is of course ridiculous. So yeah, you are also a racist.

It's the one thing that makes me want to distance myself from the right. The bigoted attitude of many people who otherwise I see eye to eye with on numerous other things.

Our movement is supposed to be about rejecting hate. A lot of you frickers double down on it every single day. It's disgusting.
Posted by Redbone
my castle
Member since Sep 2012
20631 posts
Posted on 12/21/25 at 9:33 pm to
quote:

Yes, unfortunately a lot of people on the right are fricking racists. And it's getting worse by the day.
The sky is falling, the sky is falling.
Posted by Redbone
my castle
Member since Sep 2012
20631 posts
Posted on 12/21/25 at 9:35 pm to
quote:

makes me want to distance myself from the right.
Congrats. You've arrived.
Posted by Ham Malone
Member since Nov 2010
2649 posts
Posted on 12/21/25 at 9:35 pm to
quote:

It's the one thing that makes me want to distance myself from the right.


Well…bye.
Posted by lurking
Member since Nov 2022
789 posts
Posted on 12/21/25 at 9:36 pm to
quote:

It's the one thing that makes me want to distance myself from the right


Posted by AlterEd
Cydonia, Mars
Member since Dec 2024
3136 posts
Posted on 12/21/25 at 9:36 pm to
quote:

Well…bye.


I didn't say I would. I said it makes me want to. Reading disgusting comments by people I'm otherwise aligned with really sucks.
Posted by SallysHuman
Lady Palmetto Bug
Member since Jan 2025
14799 posts
Posted on 12/21/25 at 9:37 pm to
quote:

My racist comments were aimed at the people in the OP who are wanting Vivek "sent back." To where? He was fricking born in Ohio and has lived in America his entire life.


OP was trolling... you don't know retired tiger's shtick?

quote:

So yeah, you are also a racist.


Good. I don't care.

quote:

It's the one thing that makes me want to distance myself from the right. The bigoted attitude of many people who otherwise I see eye to eye with on numerous other things.


Bye, Felicia!

Posted by Robin Masters
Birmingham
Member since Jul 2010
35044 posts
Posted on 12/21/25 at 9:38 pm to
quote:

No matter your ancestry, if you wait your turn and obtain citizenship, you are every bit as American as a Mayflower descendant, as long as you subscribe to the creed of the American founding and the culture that was born of it.


So then people who didn’t wait their turn would be lessor Americans? Why do you want 30MM lessor Americans living here? That’s strikes me as a very bad dichotomy to promote.

This post sort of blew up in your face it would seem.
Posted by cbtullis
Atlanta
Member since Apr 2004
6825 posts
Posted on 12/21/25 at 9:39 pm to
quote:

Yes, unfortunately a lot of people on the right are fricking racists


If you mean I hate people who come into this country and want to bring their shitty society and beliefs with them
Then yes I agree with you
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