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Started By
Message

Why CASH is a BAD investment right now
Posted on 2/6/09 at 3:18 pm
Posted on 2/6/09 at 3:18 pm
Since I have been on the board, I am shocked at how many people believe that switching to cash, and/or trying to time the market is a sound if not preferred market strategy. I think cash can be useful in your portfolio, but only for specific purposes and not as a strategy. My argument becomes stronger the longer your investment time horizon. I know certain members of this board will not take my word for it(debating you guys is more fun anyway) So I have compiled a list of statistics to back my side of the argument. Also since you guys are so in love with the SP500, I will use that as my example
Bears vs. Bulls
SP500 had 8 bear markets from 1946 - 2007
The avg. Bull lasted 2.7 years
The avg. Bears lasted 0.7 years
The growth of a $10,000 investment in the SP500 in '46 had reached a value of $9,009,485 by '07
...but only for those buy and hold, long term investors. Had you tried to be smarter than the market and gone to cash...well not so much
Timing the market
Scholars recently estimated that from 1926-1993 any investor had a 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000022883557% chance of timing the market correctly all of the time.
Thats 242 zero's before the number, and yes I tripled checked its accuracy.
Not saying you cant do it, Im just saying its probably not going to happen
The problem however is that some people try to do just that. Historically a bull markets best gains have been in the beginning.
So there are considerably penalties for being in cash at the wrong time, even if you miss it by a couple of days.
Consider This:
SP500 Total returns from 1925-2007
Market Index - all months - 10.3%
exclude best 5 months - 8.4%
exclude best 10 months - 7.5%
exclude best 20 months - 5.3%
exclude best 40 months - 3.6%
SP500 Total returns from 1977 - 2007
Market Index - all days - 12.8%
exclude best 10 days - 10.8%
exclude best 20 days - 9.4%
exclude best 40 days - 6.8%
exclude best 50 days - 5.8%
I guess if you can acurately predict the best days then you shouldnt worry about this, but statistically I dont think that going to happen.
For me Id rather not take the chance, stick to time tested investment principles, and reap the rewards.
Timing the market and moving in and out of cash doesnt work, no matter what your charts tell you. Even if your literally days behind recognizing that fact, you will be seriously penalized for it.
The market will get thru this, it always does. For those that stuck with a disciplined investment strategy you will be stronger for it
Bears vs. Bulls
SP500 had 8 bear markets from 1946 - 2007
The avg. Bull lasted 2.7 years
The avg. Bears lasted 0.7 years
The growth of a $10,000 investment in the SP500 in '46 had reached a value of $9,009,485 by '07
...but only for those buy and hold, long term investors. Had you tried to be smarter than the market and gone to cash...well not so much
Timing the market
Scholars recently estimated that from 1926-1993 any investor had a 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000022883557% chance of timing the market correctly all of the time.
Thats 242 zero's before the number, and yes I tripled checked its accuracy.
Not saying you cant do it, Im just saying its probably not going to happen
The problem however is that some people try to do just that. Historically a bull markets best gains have been in the beginning.
So there are considerably penalties for being in cash at the wrong time, even if you miss it by a couple of days.
Consider This:
SP500 Total returns from 1925-2007
Market Index - all months - 10.3%
exclude best 5 months - 8.4%
exclude best 10 months - 7.5%
exclude best 20 months - 5.3%
exclude best 40 months - 3.6%
SP500 Total returns from 1977 - 2007
Market Index - all days - 12.8%
exclude best 10 days - 10.8%
exclude best 20 days - 9.4%
exclude best 40 days - 6.8%
exclude best 50 days - 5.8%
I guess if you can acurately predict the best days then you shouldnt worry about this, but statistically I dont think that going to happen.
For me Id rather not take the chance, stick to time tested investment principles, and reap the rewards.
Timing the market and moving in and out of cash doesnt work, no matter what your charts tell you. Even if your literally days behind recognizing that fact, you will be seriously penalized for it.
The market will get thru this, it always does. For those that stuck with a disciplined investment strategy you will be stronger for it
This post was edited on 2/6/09 at 3:21 pm
Posted on 2/6/09 at 3:23 pm to amsterdam
I imagine 07-09 skewers the statistics somewhat.
Posted on 2/6/09 at 3:26 pm to amsterdam
quote:
Since I have been on the board, I am shocked at how many people believe that switching to cash, and/or trying to time the market is a sound if not preferred market strategy. I think cash can be useful in your portfolio, but only for specific purposes and not as a strategy. My argument becomes stronger the longer your investment time horizon. I know certain members of this board will not take my word for it(debating you guys is more fun anyway) So I have compiled a list of statistics to back my side of the argument. Also since you guys are so in love with the SP500, I will use that as my example
How about you sell me some put options, say SPY @80, we can make them european dated (i.e. expiry exercise only). I will pay you $1 per contract, epxiry date is Dec 1, 2010. I will take any date beyond Dec 1, 2009, and up till 2019
Posted on 2/6/09 at 3:30 pm to amsterdam
Give us a little background info please. Just a hobbyist who handles his own investments, or something in the financial industry? Trying to see where you're coming from 
Posted on 2/6/09 at 3:32 pm to amsterdam
quote:
I imagine 07-09 skewers the statistics somewhat.
I imagine 3/00 to now skewers it worse. Going back to 1982 (or the end of that recession, whenever that was) still looks pretty good, even taking into account the last decade.
quote:
amsterdam
You fail to take into account the tremendous market expertise on this board. Prepare for your own skewering.
Posted on 2/6/09 at 3:33 pm to TigerinATL
he's a commissioned financial advisor. Obviously.
Posted on 2/6/09 at 3:33 pm to amsterdam
How long will it take to make up my 25% loss for 2008 using a buy and hold strategy?
That's what I thought.
That's what I thought.
Posted on 2/6/09 at 3:33 pm to TigerinATL
Being in CASH and tossing money into a mutual fund to DCA are two completely different things.
Posted on 2/6/09 at 3:33 pm to Meauxjeaux
yeah, notice that he starts all of his statistics AFTER the depression as well. talk about skew. 
Posted on 2/6/09 at 3:34 pm to TigerinATL
to my double post.This post was edited on 2/6/09 at 3:42 pm
Posted on 2/6/09 at 3:51 pm to amsterdam
Can you do a similar analysis on the Nikkei? Thanks.
Posted on 2/6/09 at 3:54 pm to Colonel Hapablap
quote:
he's a commissioned financial advisor. Obviously.
I just briefed through his post history.
Posted on 2/6/09 at 3:57 pm to Cash
quote:
he's a commissioned financial advisor. Obviously.
I just briefed through his post history.
Give the guy a break. I mean, I don't agree with him. But his argument does have some merit.
Historically he was correct. But we are at inflection point in history (like GD, Civil war, collapse of brettonwood, etc). Things are going to change, it takes foresight and risk to capitalize on it, and not to be capitalized.
Posted on 2/6/09 at 4:00 pm to Cash
At first it was funny, but it's starting to get sad. I bet this dude has hundreds of clients who all rely on him to tell them the shite he's telling us. And I honestly don't think he's being malicious. He actually BELIEVES what he's saying. He's been so brainwashed by the industry that he can't even think straight any more. You give him reasoned argument after reasoned argument, blow up anything and everything that he says, and his comebacks are "u r wrong" and "look at these statistics that I got from American Funds!" He's like fricking Neo in The Matrix before he takes the red pill.
Posted on 2/6/09 at 4:07 pm to Colonel Hapablap
quote:
At first it was funny, but it's starting to get sad. I bet this dude has hundreds of clients who all rely on him to tell them the shite he's telling us.
Again, from 1980 to 1999, this would have been good advice. So there is a track record of success there.
quote:
He's been so brainwashed by the industry that he can't even think straight any more.
Its very hard to break free from the mind grip. I can't seem to let go of my hatred of christianity.
Pushing him too hard will not get him to relent, it will just force re-trenchment. The best strategy is to let the results re-adjust his mindset.
quote:
He's like fricking Neo in The Matrix before he takes the red pill.
Well, he does come off as a retard.
Posted on 2/6/09 at 4:09 pm to MileHigh
quote:
Again, from 1980 to 1999, this would have been good advice. So there is a track record of success there.
Posted on 2/6/09 at 4:13 pm to MileHigh
quote:
But we are at inflection point in history (like GD, Civil war, collapse of brettonwood, etc). Things are going to change, it takes foresight and risk to capitalize on it, and not to be capitalized.
Did yo think that up pre-bong hit or post-bong hit?
Posted on 2/6/09 at 4:17 pm to Parliament
quote:
Did yo think that up pre-bong hit or post-bong hit?
pre
I will say I have been saying this for 20 years though.
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