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Message
GFCI tripped out of the blue while running vacuum (hail mary) -- UPDATE FIXED!!
Posted on 2/27/25 at 8:09 pm
Posted on 2/27/25 at 8:09 pm
Nothing to indicate this was a problem in the year we've lived here. Never tripped a single time.
Circuit is 6 regular outlets, 2 GFCIs and a wall switch that controls a fireplace fan.
this happend when my wife was in the middle of running a vacuum off a normal outlet which she's done on an almost daily basis for a solid year until today.
removed everything plugged into the other outlets; couldn't get the GFCI to reset.
there is another GFCI on the other side of the room which wasn't tripped so i didn't worry about it until...
..I ordered a 20a GFCI off amazon just in case this one was bad and swapped it. Nope, both are fine, but at least the new one displays a solid red led so i can clearly see there's a problem and now that other GFCI on the other side of the room is tripped and won't reset.
the only thing left i can think of is maybe a rodent bit through the romex in the crawl space or something so i guess i'm going to belly crawl through that tomorrow.
before that, i thought i'd solicit ideas from here as to what else it may be.
in short, the GFCI appears to be doing its job but i'm not sure the best way to track down where the issue is except inspecting the cables under the house.
ceiling light and bar outlets in that room are all fine because they're on a separate circuit.
the circuit never tripped; i did flip it on and off several times just for shits and grins.
Circuit is 6 regular outlets, 2 GFCIs and a wall switch that controls a fireplace fan.
this happend when my wife was in the middle of running a vacuum off a normal outlet which she's done on an almost daily basis for a solid year until today.
removed everything plugged into the other outlets; couldn't get the GFCI to reset.
there is another GFCI on the other side of the room which wasn't tripped so i didn't worry about it until...
..I ordered a 20a GFCI off amazon just in case this one was bad and swapped it. Nope, both are fine, but at least the new one displays a solid red led so i can clearly see there's a problem and now that other GFCI on the other side of the room is tripped and won't reset.
the only thing left i can think of is maybe a rodent bit through the romex in the crawl space or something so i guess i'm going to belly crawl through that tomorrow.
before that, i thought i'd solicit ideas from here as to what else it may be.
in short, the GFCI appears to be doing its job but i'm not sure the best way to track down where the issue is except inspecting the cables under the house.
ceiling light and bar outlets in that room are all fine because they're on a separate circuit.
the circuit never tripped; i did flip it on and off several times just for shits and grins.
This post was edited on 2/28/25 at 3:17 pm
4
Posted on 2/27/25 at 9:19 pm to CAD703X
How new is the house?
Posted on 2/28/25 at 7:23 am to CAD703X
Why are there 2 GFCI outlets on the same line? Is this bathrooms?
It’s an older home you are remodeling? I would strongly suggest you probably have an outlet somewhere you didn’t know. Maybe on the outside, maybe a bathroom, garage, etc.
Gfci’s shut off everything down stream but not upstream. So outlet-outlet-gfci- outlet, would turn off power to the gfci and 4th outlet. So check for any issues downstream.
It’s an older home you are remodeling? I would strongly suggest you probably have an outlet somewhere you didn’t know. Maybe on the outside, maybe a bathroom, garage, etc.
Gfci’s shut off everything down stream but not upstream. So outlet-outlet-gfci- outlet, would turn off power to the gfci and 4th outlet. So check for any issues downstream.
Posted on 2/28/25 at 9:07 am to CAD703X
quote:
but at least the new one displays a solid red led
What does the manual say the red light means? That would possibly point you in the right direction. Your line wires or load wires could have an issue or maybe a short downstream. Without knowing what the red light means it’s hard to diagnose.
Posted on 2/28/25 at 9:17 am to CAD703X
If you have an intermittent ground fault, it's more likely to be a bad connection than along a length of wire. I'd start by inspecting the sockets the vacuum is plugged into. Look for corrosion or signs of arching (burn marks).
You haven't mentioned the house's age. You might have aluminum wiring which is notorious for corroded connections.
You haven't mentioned the house's age. You might have aluminum wiring which is notorious for corroded connections.
Posted on 2/28/25 at 9:32 am to Tree_Fall
quote:
You might have aluminum wiring which is notorious for corroded connections.
This is true. Unless a sealant is used to coat the exposed aluminum, it’s just a matter of time before it oxidizes and starts to turn into powder.
My cousin called me last week because some of the loads in his house weren’t working and turns out he lost one of the hot wires to his panel. Ended up being a faulted underground aluminum wire and is only a 5 year old house in a newer neighborhood. Even one small puncture in the wire can allow moisture to intrude and oxidize the conductor very quickly. I was even surprised the wire was still able to conduct electricity at all before it finally faulted.
Posted on 2/28/25 at 9:45 am to Tree_Fall
i replaced 100% of the outlets in the house when we moved in january 2024 with basic stock home depot outlets.
until this week, i've never had any issues but i can tell you some of those 1970s beige lighswitches and outlets were in bad shape.
i will look for signs of burn marks on all the outlets. didnt think of that.
house was built in 1978
the legrand documentation that came with the GFCI says "if you hit the TEST button to trip the device that should stop the flow of electricity making the lamp shut OF and the GFCI's red indicator light come on."
so i think that's working as designed; there's a fault somewhere so i can't reset it and the light is staying on.
until this week, i've never had any issues but i can tell you some of those 1970s beige lighswitches and outlets were in bad shape.
i will look for signs of burn marks on all the outlets. didnt think of that.
house was built in 1978
the legrand documentation that came with the GFCI says "if you hit the TEST button to trip the device that should stop the flow of electricity making the lamp shut OF and the GFCI's red indicator light come on."
so i think that's working as designed; there's a fault somewhere so i can't reset it and the light is staying on.
This post was edited on 2/28/25 at 9:51 am
Posted on 2/28/25 at 9:49 am to baldona
quote:
Why are there 2 GFCI outlets on the same line? Is this bathrooms?
NO idea. its a large den with 20ft ceilings and i simply did a 1:1 swap where there were GFCI outlets before. they are on opposite ends of the room.
quote:
It’s an older home you are remodeling? I would strongly suggest you probably have an outlet somewhere you didn’t know. Maybe on the outside, maybe a bathroom, garage, etc.
i've been under this particular room because thankfully its completely exposed in a crawl space i can move around in so i can probably get to the wiring underneath all outlets. yes its possible there is another one but if so, i haven't found it yet.
quote:
Gfci’s shut off everything down stream but not upstream. So outlet-outlet-gfci- outlet, would turn off power to the gfci and 4th outlet. So check for any issues downstream.
that's a good question. its a rectangular room and the 2 GFCIs are probably 30-40 feet away from each other but not sure which way the line runs.
is there a way to temporarily bypass one of the GFCIs to see which direction its going?
Posted on 2/28/25 at 10:36 am to CAD703X
Picture worth a thousand words?
Posted on 2/28/25 at 10:40 am to CAD703X
quote:
NO idea. its a large den with 20ft ceilings and i simply did a 1:1 swap where there were GFCI outlets before. they are on opposite ends of the room.
I can promise there was not an original gfci in a den in 1978 or even in the bathroom for that matter so you were swapping 1:1 what some random dude did in the past. Really need to evaluate the entire circuit to see what goes where and correct it. I would just put a regular outlet in there and if anything was concerning, I have an insulation tester but you could probably borrow one.
Posted on 2/28/25 at 10:49 am to Dallaswho
quote:
I can promise there was not an original gfci in a den in 1978 or even in the bathroom for that matter so you were swapping 1:1 what some random dude did in the past.
point well taken quote:
Really need to evaluate the entire circuit to see what goes where and correct it. I would just put a regular outlet in there and if anything was concerning, I have an insulation tester but you could probably borrow one.
thanks. yes i just assume everything is done for a reason and since im not an electrician, the limits of my knowledge is just a straight swap.
sounds like i need to bring someone in and quit trying to figure this out myself.
Posted on 2/28/25 at 10:50 am to CAD703X
There is no need for GFCI's in those areas. I'd replace them with regular 15 amp outlets. I'd check each outlet on that circuit for signs of arcing. Look at each to see signs of overheating, discoloration, etc. If you see anything, turn off the breaker and remove the outlet. Check for nicks in the wires or anywhere the wires may be shorting to ground.
This is probably a small cut/nick that is intermittent. If you had a direct short the breaker should stay tripped.
This is probably a small cut/nick that is intermittent. If you had a direct short the breaker should stay tripped.
This post was edited on 2/28/25 at 10:53 am
Posted on 2/28/25 at 11:07 am to football101
i kinda thought that was strange myself but just shrugged since we had just bought the house and had much bigger fish to fry.
now i can definitely say there's only a room full of outlets (plus the one fan switch) on that circuit.
now i can definitely say there's only a room full of outlets (plus the one fan switch) on that circuit.
Posted on 2/28/25 at 3:19 pm to CAD703X
took every single outlet all the way out and the ***LAST*** freaking outlet i found a huge gash in the black wire leading to the outlet way in the back of the box.
no sign of overload, burn marks, anything. literally just looked like someone took a knife and whittled on the wire.
this is the one behind that green console so i know for a fact NOBODY has been back there since i put that cabinet there 8 or 9 months ago. just a single power strip plugged in and the tv, soundbar and led lights on the cabinet are plugged into that so that shouldn't be much strain at all.
anyway, pulled it out, cut that off and reconnected the outlet and we're good.
no sign of overload, burn marks, anything. literally just looked like someone took a knife and whittled on the wire.
this is the one behind that green console so i know for a fact NOBODY has been back there since i put that cabinet there 8 or 9 months ago. just a single power strip plugged in and the tv, soundbar and led lights on the cabinet are plugged into that so that shouldn't be much strain at all.
anyway, pulled it out, cut that off and reconnected the outlet and we're good.
This post was edited on 2/28/25 at 3:20 pm
Posted on 2/28/25 at 4:25 pm to football101
quote:
There is no need for GFCI's in those areas. I'd replace them with regular 15 amp outlets.
This is why I was asking if he 100% knew all the outlets. Its very possible there is an outside outlet somewhere on that line? IDK, what code is for basements?
People and maybe code is to put a GFCI outlet anywhere there is water, but my point on why is there more than one is because a GFCI protects all outlets downstream to the best of my knowledge. So if you have one upstream, then everything down stream is GFCI protected right? But I've seen where properties are overloaded with GFCI outlets and its a PITA when one is set off to find where it is.
Posted on 2/28/25 at 7:32 pm to CAD703X
My Google check tells me that aluminum wiring was common 70's into 80's that's your window. It will be tedious, but check resistance point-to-point to see if any circuit segment has a resistant very out of line low. You'll need to shut your power off 1st. Quality ohmmeters have hot-circuit protection. Cheap ones do not.
Posted on 3/3/25 at 9:50 am to baldona
Not necessarily, you can feed from the line to power additional outlets that will not be GFCI protected. Feed from the load to have the GFCI protected.
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