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Would more people have lived if hospitals weren't so quick to put them on ventilators?

Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:29 am
Posted by stout
Porte du Lafitte
Member since Sep 2006
179071 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:29 am
quote:

CLAIM: A new study found that ventilators were responsible for nearly all COVID-19 patient deaths.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: Misleading. The study being referenced found that a secondary pneumonia associated with mechanical ventilation contributes to a patient’s death when it doesn’t respond to treatment. But a study author said that the patients placed on a ventilator would have died without that intervention, and that COVID-19 is still the primary cause of death.

THE FACTS: A headline shared widely on social media is spreading an erroneous narrative that COVID-19 deaths were actually caused by medical interventions, not the disease.

“Official Report: Ventilators Killed Nearly ALL COVID Patients,” reads a headline that has racked up tens of thousands of likes and shares.

The story appeared on The People’s Voice, a website previously known as NewsPunch and Your News Wire that has routinely spread misinformation. The story references a study conducted by Northwestern University researchers and published in the Journal of Clinical Investigation.

But the headline distorts the facts, a study author told The Associated Press.

The research looked at the outcomes of mechanically ventilated patients with pneumonia, not only from COVID-19 but from other causes, too, said Benjamin Singer, an associate professor of medicine at Northwestern University. The point of the study was to evaluate what happens to patients during their ICU stay and whether certain factors contribute to good or bad outcomes.

“One of the major features that we found that contributes to poor outcomes is if patients develop a secondary pneumonia, meaning a pneumonia that occurs while they’re already on the ventilator for pneumonia,” Singer said. “And specifically, if that secondary pneumonia does not resolve, meaning that despite antibiotics and supportive care, the patient does not resolve their pneumonia.”

In other words, a secondary pneumonia that can’t be treated further contributes to their death.

Ventilator-associated pneumonia, as it’s called, is a known issue in the field, and not COVID-19 specific: A patient’s lungs aren’t operating normally, Singer said, and a tube in the windpipe presents an opening for bacteria.

But it’s a mischaracterization to say that the ventilators are responsible for the deaths, Singer said, likening the circumstances to a patient in a severe car crash who dies despite surgery attempts; it’s the car crash that’s ultimately the cause of death.

The misrepresentation appears to stem from a lack of understanding about the clinical decision-making when it comes to ventilators, said Dr. Amesh Adalja, a senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security who was not involved with the study.

“We don’t put people on mechanical ventilators lightly,” Adalja said, adding that ventilators are used as a life-saving measure for patients in respiratory failure.

Singer agreed.

“These are all patients who would have died if they had not been put up on a mechanical ventilator,” Singer said. “You can’t be at risk for a ventilator secondary pneumonia if you’re dead.”



LINK



It seems like they were pretty quick to put people on ventilators despite this new claim. I remember this being the reported standard treatment if you went to the hospital during Covid. Did their rush to put people on ventilators cause Ventilator-associated pneumonia in some people who may have lived otherwise?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
464968 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:30 am to
I thought they figured this out during the pandemic and stopped doing it so much, so early.
Posted by beulahland
Little D'arbonne
Member since Jan 2013
3962 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:32 am to
Naw.
Covid death = money for hospital.
Posted by Night Vision
Member since Feb 2018
18525 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:32 am to
Follow the money.

Posted by RockyMtnTigerWDE
War Damn Eagle Dad!
Member since Oct 2010
107911 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:33 am to
Ventilators killed a lot of people
Posted by Statestreet
Gueydan
Member since Sep 2008
13879 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:33 am to
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
79743 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:33 am to
quote:

I thought they figured this out during the pandemic and stopped doing it so much, so early.


There were tons of medical people saying that the vents were increasing deaths.

Have we forgotten so soon?
Posted by stout
Porte du Lafitte
Member since Sep 2006
179071 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:34 am to
Not that I recall. They were still putting people on vents and giving them Remdesivir more than a year into it. A well-known preacher from our area went in with CV even after getting the shot and they put him on a vent and he died. He was elderly but the point is they were still putting people on vents.
This post was edited on 6/16/24 at 8:35 am
Posted by Bunk Moreland
Member since Dec 2010
66212 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:35 am to
I thought the Remdesivir is what killed everyone.
Posted by ragincajun03
Member since Nov 2007
27256 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:36 am to
The initial treatment response to those with COVID seems to have been a complete blunder looking back.

Making someone lie down in a hospital bed, hardly doing any activity, meaning their breaths got shorter and shorter...buddy of mine who is an ER doctor said to me early on "If you get COVID, keep up your running in the morning routine".

His theory was large, deep breaths would aid in preventing the pneumonia bacteria from settling in.
Posted by Lsut81
Member since Jun 2005
83607 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:37 am to
quote:

Would more people have lived if hospitals weren't so quick to put them on ventilators?


Thought this was identified a few months into the bullshite?


Nearly everything the people in charge did was wrong... Instead of taking a wait and see approach and adapting, they threw everything they could at the wall and killed hundreds of thousands of people.
Posted by Statestreet
Gueydan
Member since Sep 2008
13879 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:37 am to
quote:


I thought the Remdesivir is what killed everyone.


Remdesivir got the ones who didn't get killed by the ventilators
Posted by momentoftruth87
Your mom
Member since Oct 2013
86110 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:37 am to
I’m surprised the covid freaks don’t blame trump for this since he got tons of ventilators made and distributed. Again he was doing everything the “experts” suggested to help out and people think he’s an a-hole just like people wanted a vax and he ensured it happened only for big pharm to frick him over.
Posted by Strannix
C.S.A.
Member since Dec 2012
52756 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:37 am to
Vent + Rem = 44k for hospital
Posted by Hangover Haven
Metry
Member since Oct 2013
31900 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:38 am to
quote:

AP’S ASSESSMENT: Misleading. The study being referenced found that a secondary pneumonia associated with mechanical ventilation contributes to a patient’s death when it doesn’t respond to treatment. But a study author said that the patients placed on a ventilator would have died without that intervention, and that COVID-19 is still the primary cause of death.


People aren't put on Vents for shits and giggles, it's the last effort to prevent them from dying..

Yes, people do get what's called Ventilator associated pneumonias, but that's usually people who are long term vent pts who we have trouble weaning off. So their life expectancy is fricked.

Those covid pts who were put on vents also usually went into total organ failure. Usually all of them were on pressers, and eventually placed on dialysis because of renal failure.

What a waste of paper this article is....
It's like damned if you do, damned if you don't.
This post was edited on 6/16/24 at 8:42 am
Posted by Night Vision
Member since Feb 2018
18525 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:38 am to
quote:

I thought the Remdesivir is what killed everyone.


Posted by CamdenTiger
Member since Aug 2009
65116 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:38 am to
Yep, look into Remdisivir, Fauchi made it first line, after it was pulled from the Ebola study, cause it was so deadly to the kidneys and caused fluid retention that drowned patient’s lungs… Hospitals got paid a lot to put patients on it, and pushed the death totals up to create more fear; so they could usher in mail-in voting….Our Government has a lot of explaining to do, and won’t!!!
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
464968 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:39 am to
quote:

Again he was doing everything the “experts” suggested to help out and people think he’s an a-hole


a-hole is the wrong word.

Sheep/cuck is a better word.

quote:

just like people wanted a vax and he ensured it happened only for big pharm to frick him over.

Nothing is ever his fault. Y'all must hate Jocko's Extreme Ownership concept
Posted by Bunk Moreland
Member since Dec 2010
66212 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:39 am to
I'm not medical professional, but when a person's oxygen levels are dropping, what you can do besides put them on a vent or something like a bipap machine?
Posted by Houag80
Member since Jul 2019
17657 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:40 am to
Yes, they murdered people.
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