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re: Why have churches started allowing gay preachers?

Posted on 5/5/24 at 2:21 pm to
Posted by KTiger85
Member since Oct 2018
728 posts
Posted on 5/5/24 at 2:21 pm to
I am a straight man, but don't believe beig gay is a sin. Nor is it a choice. I am religious and believe many in the history of the church have taken a few phrases in the Bible out of context. I read those phrases in the context of using sex, particularly gay sex, in a non-loving way and abusive way. There were many examples where men in power abused young boys and forced sex on them. All straight and gay people should think of abusive sex as not natural and speak out against it. This is the context that caused the men that wrote the Bible and the men that re-wrote the Bible lived in.

I find it interesting that many take these verses as a cornerstone of their belief. If you are one of those, then why do you not emphasize the many other verses that you do not follow? Who here would stone their daughter to death if she has sex outside of marriage? Are adulterers put to death? Do you ever work on the Sabbath? The list is extensive. These are not God's words, but were written by men and normally many years after the events or quotes from the original men that spoke them.

Please share any comments where Jesus spoke against gay sex. I don't believe he ever did.

Can any of you have an intelligent and fact based discussion on this? Let's see.
Posted by KWL85
Member since Mar 2023
1238 posts
Posted on 5/6/24 at 10:43 am to
Bump. Why no takers for responding?
Posted by Prodigal Son
Member since May 2023
738 posts
Posted on 5/11/24 at 6:40 pm to
Before we get into this, I want to make it clear that God’s word says that ALL sexual immorality is a sin. And, that one who struggles with homosexuality is no less loved by God than one who struggles with heterosexual immorality- sexual relations outside the bond of marriage, adultery, pornography, etc. I am in no position (nor do I desire) to cast stones. My only intention is to defend what the Bible teaches- with reverence and respect. And a little humor to lighten the mood.

quote:

I am religious

Interesting choice of words. You know who else was religious? Pharisees.


quote:

don't believe being gay is a sin. Nor is it a choice.


Well, God’s word disagrees- strongly.

Genesis 2:24 - Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
From the very beginning, God’s plan was for one man, and one woman, to be joined together in the bonds of marriage.

Leviticus 18:22 ~ You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Leviticus 20:13 ~ If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
Bolded to show that this verse at least implies that the act in question is a free-will-decision

Romans 1:26-28 ~ For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

God’s word is very clear, that homosexuality and all other forms of sexual immorality are sinful- among many, many other things; things that, if we’re all being honest, we all have various areas in which we struggle- seemingly to no avail. More on that later.


quote:

many in the history of the church have taken a few phrases in the Bible out of context.

Sure. But, which ones are you referring to here? I would love to discuss this in more detail.

quote:

I read those phrases in the context of using sex, particularly gay sex, in a non-loving way and abusive way.

Ok. But, this is called eisegesis- which means an interpretation, especially of Scripture, that expresses the interpreter's own ideas, bias, or the like, rather than the meaning of the text.

quote:

There were many examples where men in power abused young boys and forced sex on them.

Right. What’s the easiest way to avoid such things? Follow God’s plan for heterosexual, monogamous marriages; and to abstain from all forms of sexual immorality.


quote:

This is the context that caused the men that wrote the Bible and the men that re-wrote the Bible lived in.

My friend, we could do a whole separate thread on this topic alone. Long story short- the Bible that we have today, is the same one they had then. Sure, there are some copyist errors, but absolutely nothing that changes any of the theology. The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls bears this out.


quote:

I find it interesting that many take these verses as a cornerstone of their belief. If you are one of those, then why do you not emphasize the many other verses that you do not follow? Who here would stone their daughter to death if she has sex outside of marriage? Are adulterers put to death? Do you ever work on the Sabbath?

Wow. A lot to unpack there. And, I hope we get to do so. But, for now- do two wrongs make a right? Surely you don’t believe that one’s sin is justified by another’s?

quote:

These are not God's words, but were written by men and normally many years after the events or quotes from the original men that spoke them.

Now we’re getting somewhere. Again, there’s a lot to discuss here. But, if you don’t believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, then how can you call yourself a Christian? Oh, that’s right- you don’t. You’re “religious.”


quote:

Please share any comments where Jesus spoke against gay sex. I don't believe he ever did.

For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person. (Matthew 15:19–20 ESV)
I find it interesting that He led with “for out of the heart come…” This also signifies a free will decision. So, when the Old Testament clearly states that homosexuality is indeed a form of sexual immorality, Jesus affirms that all forms of sexual immorality defile a person- He is, in fact, condemning homosexuality.

Look, friend- I applaud your desire to reconcile the lost to Christ. It seems to me that you believe that you are acting out of love- and that’s commendable. But the Bible is very clear on homosexuality, but to coddle someone in their sins because of your unwillingness to fight the battle- is the opposite of love. I hope to continue this conversation with you, and anyone else who wants to participate, because there is so much more to say about much of what has been said.
Posted by Ric Flair
Charlotte
Member since Oct 2005
13710 posts
Posted on 5/11/24 at 6:45 pm to
quote:

I am a straight man, but don't believe beig gay is a sin.

I read those phrases in the context of using sex, particularly gay sex, in a non-loving way and abusive way.


Sounds like you got your Seminary degree either at the university of Sodom and Gomorrah.

I’m guessing you ignore 1st Timothy 3:2 :

“must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;“

Posted by Ric Flair
Charlotte
Member since Oct 2005
13710 posts
Posted on 5/11/24 at 6:55 pm to
quote:

This is the context that caused the men that wrote the Bible and the men that re-wrote the Bible lived in.


quote:

These are not God's words, but were written by men and normally many years after the events or quotes from the original men that spoke them.


I believe the Bible to be the word of God. Although written by man, it was Divinely inspired.

Posted by Ric Flair
Charlotte
Member since Oct 2005
13710 posts
Posted on 5/11/24 at 7:02 pm to
quote:

Please share any comments where Jesus spoke against gay sex. I don't believe he ever did.


Jesus also didn’t speak out against masturbating to online porn while high on cocaine. Doesn’t mean that it’s not a sin.
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