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re: I hate snakes (bit 2 of my dogs) update - vengeance

Posted on 3/26/24 at 8:32 am to
Posted by Fe_Mike
Member since Jul 2015
3154 posts
Posted on 3/26/24 at 8:32 am to
quote:

That juvenile massive venom dose is a myth


Yup.

If you get a hot bite, it's better to come from a juvenile because their venom glands are smaller.

If they decide to use it, snakes don't moderate venom use. It's like cops and guns. They don't shoot unless they're ready to kill, and if that's the case, they empty the mag. Adult snakes know that their venom isn't likely to kill a human fast enough to be useful defense, so they're believed to be less inclined to use it and just issue a dry 'warning' bite. But if it does envenomate, it's using as much as it can.

The myth likely stems from juveniles being more inclined to use venom at all, thus dry bites are more common from adults and seemingly 'less potent'.

Posted by BoogaBear
Member since Jul 2013
5611 posts
Posted on 3/26/24 at 8:36 am to
Just quoting what the vet told us, not pretending to be some sort of snake expert.
Posted by choupiquesushi
yaton rouge
Member since Jun 2006
30722 posts
Posted on 3/26/24 at 8:51 am to
Having seen Mocs and timbers being milked - the bigger the snake - more venom. and in my experience with bird dogs and people a reflex bite is more likely to be dry. Guy goose hunting with me in 1989 grabbed a moc and first bite was dry but he tried to get a better grip and second bite was not.

dogs I have known or actually seen get bit when the dog tries to bite snake - venom is coming.

the juvenile venom myth is second only to the "they can't bite under water myth"..... how they catch fish?
This post was edited on 3/26/24 at 9:01 am
Posted by LegendInMyMind
Member since Apr 2019
54903 posts
Posted on 3/26/24 at 9:23 am to
quote:

If you get a hot bite, it's better to come from a juvenile because their venom glands are smaller.

If they decide to use it, snakes don't moderate venom use. It's like cops and guns. They don't shoot unless they're ready to kill, and if that's the case, they empty the mag. Adult snakes know that their venom isn't likely to kill a human fast enough to be useful defense, so they're believed to be less inclined to use it and just issue a dry 'warning' bite. But if it does envenomate, it's using as much as it can.

The myth likely stems from juveniles being more inclined to use venom at all, thus dry bites are more common from adults and seemingly 'less potent'.

I read a paper/article/whatever not long ago on different types of bites and why dry bites happen so often. Researchers have found that venom production is a really high energy process for the snake. It takes considerably more energy for the snake to produce venom than initially thought. So, if you think about a big, mature snake and the large glands (and relative amount of venom) it has, you can see why venom conservation would play a big role.

Your point about humans not being viewed as prey is important, too. They're not going to waste that venom with a defensive bite on non-prey animals. That same study also tried to parse out the venom control question. Some species seemed to have more control than others, but the deciding factor is mainly the duration of the bite, and of course, whether it was a single bite or multiple bites. You also have the fact that some snakes are just prone to bite more than once.

It is interesting that it doesn't seem to be just a hardwired reaction, there's more nuance to it than traditionally believed.
Posted by TheRouxGuru
Member since Nov 2019
8485 posts
Posted on 3/26/24 at 9:28 am to
quote:

Fe_Mike


I just had one of those moments


I’ve always read your name as F-E-MIKE


It just randomly clicked in my head that it’s IRON MIKE




Carry on. Have a great day
This post was edited on 3/26/24 at 9:28 am
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