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Zion on the 5 least improved players list in the NBA
Posted on 1/8/24 at 4:21 pm
Posted on 1/8/24 at 4:21 pm
LINK
Not trying to be a debbie downer with the way this team is playing but the Ringer listing Zion as one of the least improved is interesting. I don’t disagree with anything they’ve stated. The only thing I will say is since that IST loss Zion’s effort, conditioning and overall play seem substantially better. My hope is he takes that next step soon or after the all-star break.
Not trying to be a debbie downer with the way this team is playing but the Ringer listing Zion as one of the least improved is interesting. I don’t disagree with anything they’ve stated. The only thing I will say is since that IST loss Zion’s effort, conditioning and overall play seem substantially better. My hope is he takes that next step soon or after the all-star break.
This post was edited on 1/8/24 at 4:26 pm
6
Posted on 1/8/24 at 4:26 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:Didn't read the article but it seems obvious. He's "negatively" improved...he's gotten worse lol.
Zion on the 5 least improved players in the NBA
Not the best timing as he's been a bit better lately but even that is better compared to what he was for the 1st few weeks of December, but we've seen exactly 0 minutes this season from Zion where he's looked nearly as good as year 2 Zion.
Not just December MVP caliber Zion, let's go back to 20 year old Zion in year 2. We aren't getting anywhere near that dude. And I know what these discussions tend to delve into with the finger pointing between Zion and coaching and for the 47th time I'll say, it's BOTH.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 4:29 pm to Pels_Yaz
I read the whole thing
Guy absolutely does not know what he’s talking about
Seemed like he watched the one national TV game against the Lakers in the IST and called it a day
Most of his gripes were about lack of scoring production relative to last year, and completely ignored that he went from having no BI and injured CJ last year to having fully healthy both
Usage rate and shot attempts are down because they CAN be, not because he’s suddenly not the same player imo
I think we can all agree Zion at the start of the season was not himself, and I still don’t think he’s at 100%, but he hasn’t regressed he just has less of the offensive load now (that’s a good thing)
Guy absolutely does not know what he’s talking about
Seemed like he watched the one national TV game against the Lakers in the IST and called it a day
Most of his gripes were about lack of scoring production relative to last year, and completely ignored that he went from having no BI and injured CJ last year to having fully healthy both
Usage rate and shot attempts are down because they CAN be, not because he’s suddenly not the same player imo
I think we can all agree Zion at the start of the season was not himself, and I still don’t think he’s at 100%, but he hasn’t regressed he just has less of the offensive load now (that’s a good thing)
Posted on 1/8/24 at 4:34 pm to Terrific Tales
quote:21.8ppg for Zion is not good for us.
Seemed like he watched the one national TV game against the Lakers in the IST and called it a day
Most of his gripes were about lack of scoring production relative to last year, and completely ignored that he went from having no BI and injured CJ last year to having fully healthy both
quote:We're an average offense, so I'm not sure we "CAN" be to be honest.
Usage rate and shot attempts are down because they CAN be, not because he’s suddenly not the same player imo
quote:He's definitely gotten better as the season goes, but he's also definitely not as good as he was last season or even as he was in year 2. His TS% is down from elite level scorer to really good scorer. We need elite Zion.
I think we can all agree Zion at the start of the season was not himself, and I still don’t think he’s at 100%, but he hasn’t regressed he just has less of the offensive load now (that’s a good thing)
Posted on 1/8/24 at 4:40 pm to shel311
quote:
We're an average offense, so I'm not sure we "CAN" be to be honest.
We've been an elite offense the last 14 games. Let's see if that trend continues or if we regress back to average.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 4:42 pm to MrBarry
quote:Fair point.
We've been an elite offense the last 14 games. Let's see if that trend continues or if we regress back to average.
What's our 3pt% in those 14 games? Wondering if it's sustainable. There could certainly be a correlation in # of open shots, but I imagine if there's a bit of unsustainable shooting in there.
This post was edited on 1/8/24 at 4:43 pm
Posted on 1/8/24 at 4:44 pm to shel311
quote:
What's our 3pt% in those 14 games? Wondering if it's sustainable. There could certainly be a correlation in # of open shots, but I imagine if there's a bit of unsustainable shooting in there.
I don’t know about the team but I know both Herb Jones and CJ have been shooting at a high percentage relative to what they normally shoot. I think CJ may be able to maintain it not sure about Herb.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 4:49 pm to Pels_Yaz
That's also the timeframe when we finally got healthy. So I think we'll continue to be in the top 10 in terms of percentage. May not be red hot all season long but we'll still be above average.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 4:51 pm to shel311
quote:
We're an average offense, so I'm not sure we "CAN" be to be honest.
I mean on the season? Sure. But I don’t really think the statement is true.
For the last 25 games, we are 1st in defensive rating and 9th in offense. That’s a lot better than average on offense
3rd in NET
Just to compare last 25 games:
Wolves: 3rd Def, 19th Off
Thunder: 9th Def, 1st Off
Nuggets: 12th Def, 7th Off
Clippers: 11th Def, 5th Off
Celtics: 5th Def, 4th Off
Bucks: 16th Def, 2nd Off
We are a great offense, and an elite defense, who had a slow start to the year for a multitude of reasons on both sides of the ball. There’s really no other way to look at it.
quote:
He's definitely gotten better as the season goes, but he's also definitely not as good as he was last season or even as he was in year 2. His TS% is down from elite level scorer to really good scorer. We need elite Zion.
Zion career TS%: 63.8
Zion last year TS%: 65.2
Zion last 25 games TS%: 63.0
He’s getting there. He, like honestly our entire team outside of JV, had a slow start to the year
He has not “regressed”
This post was edited on 1/8/24 at 4:53 pm
Posted on 1/8/24 at 5:16 pm to Terrific Tales
quote:
Most of his gripes were about lack of scoring production relative to last year, and completely ignored that he went from having no BI and injured CJ last year to having fully healthy both Usage rate and shot attempts are down because they CAN be, not because he’s suddenly not the same player imo
TOTALLY agree with this. People that don’t watch our games don’t realize what’s going on. It’s kind of like the Celtics situation where it feels like their players are having down years because the numbers aren’t the same, but in reality everyone sacrifices a little usage for the betterment of the TEAM. Put Zion on the pistons or wizards and he would be getting heralded as vastly improved, mvp candidate, etc etc because he would be getting way more usage
Posted on 1/8/24 at 5:31 pm to lsu_baseball11
quote:
TOTALLY agree with this. People that don’t watch our games don’t realize what’s going on. It’s kind of like the Celtics situation where it feels like their players are having down years because the numbers aren’t the same, but in reality everyone sacrifices a little usage for the betterment of the TEAM. Put Zion on the pistons or wizards and he would be getting heralded as vastly improved, mvp candidate, etc etc because he would be getting way more usage
Even with his decreased usage he hasnt been elite with the usage he's been given. He's been good. Good doesn't win in the playoffs. Elite wins in the playoffs and I havent seen anything elite from him this year
Posted on 1/8/24 at 5:34 pm to lsu_baseball11
quote:
People that don’t watch our games don’t realize what’s going on. It’s kind of like the Celtics situation where it feels like their players are having down years because the numbers aren’t the same, but in reality everyone sacrifices a little usage for the betterment of the TEAM.
I get your point but this is a bad example. Tatum has averaged 27.5 this year and 30 last year. Hes not having down years because he has more talent around him.
Zion’s usage is down but specifically to start the year his play in every aspect was not the same. Again all that is improving for him but the key is the best players usually get better with better players- even statistically, not worse. Again, I think this is also partly due to the team preferring to go through BI more than Zion as well.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 5:38 pm to Pels_Yaz
This is bullshite. Zion has been better on D, rebounding and passing. He isn’t scoring as much but he’s a better player.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 5:38 pm to Terrific Tales
quote:Even if you take the last 25 games, Zion is still not as good as average year 2 Zion. Now compare that to whatever year 2 Zion's best 25 game stretch was, it wouldn't even be close.
He has not “regressed”
He's not as good as he was 3 seasons ago nor is he as good right now as every last one of us thought he'd be when we watched him 3 seasons ago.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 5:41 pm to LSUPilot07
quote:
This is bullshite. Zion has been better on D, rebounding and passing. He isn’t scoring as much but he’s a better player.
You think currently Zion is better than MVP Zion last year?
Thats simply not true. Again hes getting there but hes not there yet.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 5:42 pm to LSUPilot07
quote:
This is bullshite. Zion has been better on D, rebounding and passing. He isn’t scoring as much but he’s a better player.
I mean you're just lying. He's averaging his worst rebounding numbers of his career. Passing is about the same as last year. Defense has been better lately but not as good as we saw last year
Posted on 1/8/24 at 5:49 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Thats simply not true. Again hes getting there but hes not there yet.
If we wanted to sum it up succinctly it’s this^
But he is not a top 5 least improved player. Maybe the first month, but not at this point
Posted on 1/8/24 at 5:50 pm to LSUPilot07
quote:
This is bullshite. Zion has been better on D, rebounding and passing. He isn’t scoring as much but he’s a better player.
Better???
Hell no
But he hasn’t regressed as much as people are making it out to seem
Posted on 1/8/24 at 5:55 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
I get your point but this is a bad example. Tatum has averaged 27.5 this year and 30 last year. Hes not having down years because he has more talent around him.
Tatum has dropped 3 PPG and Brown has dropped 4 PPG
Ingram has dropped 2 PPG and Zion has dropped 5 PPG
And I still think Zion’s PPG will go up
It’s actually a pretty damn good comparison
Posted on 1/8/24 at 5:58 pm to Terrific Tales
Tatum technically dropped 2.5 points per game and still seen as a MVP candidate. I wouldn’t say hes having a down year. But he also is unquestionably still the best player on his team.
Can you sit here and tell me every game, every night Zion is the best player on this team? Again, Im not asking if he should be; Im asking is he?
Can you sit here and tell me every game, every night Zion is the best player on this team? Again, Im not asking if he should be; Im asking is he?
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