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Populism is the only Thing That Will Save Capitalism

Posted on 11/27/23 at 11:53 am
Posted by RiverCityTider
Jacksonville, Florida
Member since Oct 2008
6119 posts
Posted on 11/27/23 at 11:53 am
I am a old dissolutioned conservative. I am having my doubts.

As we head towards the second great collapse and the slow steep decline that will follow, it stands to reason that any rational person would ask the question, "Why?".

You can argue with me about my economic outlook, but you are wrong. The bubble.. 2nd bubble ... will burst. the people will suffer, and given the debt and interest on that debt, the old ways of stimulating an economy will no longer be tenable.

So what grade do we give the system? And to what standards do we hold it?

Just a generation ago, when the Soviet Union fell, it was supposed to be the final proof of the superiority of capitalism.

But now, could it be there is no winner?

By what standard do we measure our system? I propose that we measure it by the American Dream. What percentage of our people are able to achieve any semblance of the American dream under the current system?

The Answer is, not may. A minority. Even by the most modest of definitions, the American Dream is in reach of modest minority.

Most can't achieve everyone of the following:

Shelter in a safe neighborhood.

Healthy diet

A Modest nest egg for times of unemployment or distress.

Health insurance to avoid calamity due to illness

Ownership of Personal transportation and the means to pay for it.

Adequate savings to allow for retirement with no deterioration of living standard.

A very modest, reasonable definition of "The American Dream" And achievable by perhaps 1/3 of the population.

I'm going to stop here and wrap it it because everything I have said to this point is undeniable.

Populism concerns itself with the bottom line effectiveness of the system and the condition of the people. Conservatism finds the above facts irrelevant. To the conservative, capitalism = freedom and no other discussion is necessary.

If conservatism did concern itself with outcomes, maybe it would come up with many great and viable solutions. I won't question that. But does it?

So my question is, should we even judge our system on the basis of how well it's people are doing?

Or is that simply not relevant?

If life is a race, it's a race with a staggard start.
We have no say over where we start or the advantages we enjoy or disadvantages we face. Of course, certain prodigies start at the back and win the race. And some weaklings start in front and fall behind.

The question is what about the average ones. The human ones? From a societal standpoint, should we judge our system based on how it works for them? And if we find that there is no moral basis on which it should be judged, then as a practical matter, can we all survive if the system doesn't work for most people?





Posted by TigerOnTheMountain
Higher Elevation
Member since Oct 2014
41773 posts
Posted on 11/27/23 at 11:57 am to
Get to point already, grandpa.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
283721 posts
Posted on 11/27/23 at 12:01 pm to
quote:

If conservatism did concern itself with outcomes


Why?

I said it in 2016, MAGA will lead "conservatives" into socialism.

Posted by BeehiveTiger
Damn Near Loachapoka, Alabama
Member since May 2020
530 posts
Posted on 11/27/23 at 12:02 pm to
Congrats you were wrong?
Posted by RiverCityTider
Jacksonville, Florida
Member since Oct 2008
6119 posts
Posted on 11/27/23 at 12:03 pm to
Your just confirming what I said. Conservatives don't care about the condition of the middle class its just not relevant to you.
Posted by Zach
Gizmonic Institute
Member since May 2005
115796 posts
Posted on 11/27/23 at 12:04 pm to
Populism is not a philosophy of governing. It's a description of a candidate's style. Trump is a conservative populist. Bernie Sanders is a leftist populist.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
283721 posts
Posted on 11/27/23 at 12:04 pm to
quote:

Congrats you were wrong?


Absolutely not.

Populism is a buffer against capitalism and free markets. Its the first step to becoming a progressive.
Posted by jrobic4
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2011
10629 posts
Posted on 11/27/23 at 12:05 pm to
Crony Capitalism isn't Capitalism. MIC and Big Pharma isn't Capitalism. Keynesianism isn't Capitalism.

The question is, can we get back to free markets and business environments that give small businesses a fighting chance? I have doubts...
Posted by BeehiveTiger
Damn Near Loachapoka, Alabama
Member since May 2020
530 posts
Posted on 11/27/23 at 12:05 pm to
Reality is not supporting your fantasy.
Posted by jrobic4
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2011
10629 posts
Posted on 11/27/23 at 12:05 pm to
Also, your assertion sucks!
Posted by jamboybarry
Member since Feb 2011
33039 posts
Posted on 11/27/23 at 12:06 pm to
quote:

Most can't achieve everyone of the following: Shelter in a safe neighborhood. Healthy diet A Modest nest egg for times of unemployment or distress. Health insurance to avoid calamity due to illness Ownership of Personal transportation and the means to pay for it. Adequate savings to allow for retirement with no deterioration of living standard. A very modest, reasonable definition of "The American Dream" And achievable by perhaps 1/3 of the population.


I was a product of single parent household, was a C student most of my academic life and still achieved all of these easily.

You sound like a sore loser

Also don’t confuse capitalism with the current corporatocracy we have now


Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
283721 posts
Posted on 11/27/23 at 12:06 pm to
quote:

The question is, can we get back to free markets and business environments that give small businesses a fighting chance? I have doubts..


2020 was a massive expansion of corporate America at the expense of small business.

The people here love it. This is what they support.
Posted by RiverCityTider
Jacksonville, Florida
Member since Oct 2008
6119 posts
Posted on 11/27/23 at 12:07 pm to
It's funny. The things you named that aren't capitalism are never really emphasized by conservatives. Only libertarians and populist focus on these things.
Posted by RiverCityTider
Jacksonville, Florida
Member since Oct 2008
6119 posts
Posted on 11/27/23 at 12:09 pm to
quote:

I was a product of single parent household, was a C student most of my academic life and still achieved all of these easily.

You sound like a sore loser

Also don’t confuse capitalism with the current corporatocracy we have now


Don't assume I've lost anything. Maybe you have lost your humanity.
Posted by TerryDawg03
The Deep South
Member since Dec 2012
17251 posts
Posted on 11/27/23 at 12:11 pm to
quote:

Populism is the only Thing That Will Save Capitalism


Capitalism isn’t perfect. It has enabled oligarchs.

I’m more concerned with liberty.
Posted by Pechon
unperson
Member since Oct 2011
7748 posts
Posted on 11/27/23 at 12:11 pm to
quote:

I was a product of single parent household, was a C student most of my academic life and still achieved all of these easily.

You sound like a sore loser


Populism is the politics of sore losers. Tends to lead to other -isms like communism, socialism, fascism, and eventually totalitarianism.

The soviets had no problem murdering the middle class as they were considered part of the bourgeoise.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
283721 posts
Posted on 11/27/23 at 12:11 pm to
quote:

Maybe you have lost your humanity.


Populism is antithetical to humanity.

If you want to help humans, help them develop. Populism rewards them for not advancing.
Posted by rmnldr
Member since Oct 2013
39379 posts
Posted on 11/27/23 at 12:16 pm to
What you want is trust busting and defeating government/business collusion.

We need a Teddy Roosevelt
Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
59735 posts
Posted on 11/27/23 at 12:17 pm to
quote:

Your just confirming what I said. Conservatives don't care about the condition of the middle class its just not relevant to you.



Roger used the term "working class" as a pejorative the other day. Let that sink in.

He's confused objecting to government interference to provide equal outcomes (socialism) with objecting to private organizations buying government and then being used as a tool of said government for the removal of liberties and the preservation of political power.

He's lost. And, he's a terrible human being.
Posted by RiverCityTider
Jacksonville, Florida
Member since Oct 2008
6119 posts
Posted on 11/27/23 at 12:17 pm to
What is it? Half of you say "we really don't have capitalism now" and the other half deny there is an issue and say the people are 100% to blame.

Which is it?
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