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Posted on 11/14/23 at 1:39 pm to Supermoto Tiger
quote:That's more than 5 ish seconds a day that it takes to plug in then go about your business.
I spend 5 min a week to fill up my truck with gas.
Posted on 11/14/23 at 2:02 pm to Supermoto Tiger
quote:
spend 5 min a week to fill up my truck with gas.
It's a stupid argument. The only time charging is an issue is if you drive more than 300 miles in a day. Most people do not
Posted on 11/14/23 at 2:12 pm to shel311
quote:
Obviously everything you're saying is true, but I think the most important part is the actual time it takes out of your day directly. My car charging from 12am to 4am or whatever, sure in the literal sense takes more time than getting gas. But in the practical and actual sense of usage, it's zero time for me.
I get it and I agree.
Posted on 11/14/23 at 2:47 pm to texag7
Now do the infrastructure costs required for all gas vehicles.....sorry you dislike tech advances and peoples choice to try new things. I'm sure when we had steam powered vehicles, combustible vehicles were looked down upon. The EV revolution is here to stay.
Posted on 11/14/23 at 2:59 pm to texag7
IDK about those charging numbers. The costs seem very high.
If you want an EV, get one. Most people who have them enjoy their performance. But don’t pretend that it’s good for the environment or the country’s energy independence. It’s a status symbol just like a giant SUV or fancy clothes.
I agree that more, smaller batteries in hybrids are better for society than fewer, larger batteries in EV’s. Toyota’s method of hybridizing everything is probably the right approach now and will remain that way for 20 years.
America forcing EV’s by regulatory pressure went too quickly and it may kill the domestic auto market outside of Tesla if they don’t smarten up.
If you want an EV, get one. Most people who have them enjoy their performance. But don’t pretend that it’s good for the environment or the country’s energy independence. It’s a status symbol just like a giant SUV or fancy clothes.
I agree that more, smaller batteries in hybrids are better for society than fewer, larger batteries in EV’s. Toyota’s method of hybridizing everything is probably the right approach now and will remain that way for 20 years.
America forcing EV’s by regulatory pressure went too quickly and it may kill the domestic auto market outside of Tesla if they don’t smarten up.
This post was edited on 11/14/23 at 3:03 pm
Posted on 11/14/23 at 3:08 pm to dewster
I just bought a ICE car that gets right at 53 MPG (I have checked it through 5 tanks of gas). Mitsubishi Mirage G4. 2023 model, less than 7000 miles on it. Paid a little over $14K out the door for it. There is no way, even if the power was free, that an EV would be more efficient than that and the purchase price and operating costs would make the best deal on an EV or hyrbid hide its face in shame. Its big enough for 4 adults. Doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles but it goes from point a to point b at 53 MPG and cost less than $15K out the door.
Posted on 11/14/23 at 3:11 pm to dewster
quote:
IDK about those charging numbers. The costs seem very high.
If you want an EV, get one. Most people who have them enjoy their performance. But don’t pretend that it’s good for the environment or the country’s energy independence. It’s a status symbol just like a giant SUV or fancy clothes.
I agree that more, smaller batteries in hybrids are better for society than fewer, larger batteries in EV’s. Toyota’s method of hybridizing everything is probably the right approach now and will remain that way for 20 years.
America forcing EV’s by regulatory pressure went too quickly and it may kill the domestic auto market outside of Tesla if they don’t smarten up.
I would bet a coca cola IF the federal government subsidized tele-working in any way comparable to the EV industry the fuel savings and carbon reduction would dwarf the supposed fuel savings and carbon reduction attributable to EVs and Hybrids. We are going through the same thing we went through in the early days of PCs....everyone had to have the latest technology and 99% of the time all they were using it for was to surf the net for porn. The same is true of cell phones....they are now cameras and the equivalent of a mid 1990s PC. You can't make a call on one on a dare but the phone takes beautiful fricking pictures....
Posted on 11/14/23 at 3:19 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
I would bet a coca cola IF the federal government subsidized tele-working in any way comparable to the EV industry the fuel savings and carbon reduction would dwarf the supposed fuel savings and carbon reduction attributable to EVs and Hybrids.
You'd owe someone a coke. the infrastructure needed to tele-work (broadband, cellular, etc) has been heavily subsidized. We have no where near the nationwide network we do now without heavy government intervention. Similar subsidization was made throughout the computer boom when electrical demand increased rapidly and the govt stepped in to make sure we could meet the additional grid demands.
Posted on 11/14/23 at 3:28 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
I just bought a ICE car that gets right at 53 MPG (I have checked it through 5 tanks of gas). Mitsubishi Mirage G4. 2023 model, less than 7000 miles on it. Paid a little over $14K out the door for it. There is no way, even if the power was free, that an EV would be more efficient than that and the purchase price and operating costs would make the best deal on an EV or hyrbid hide its face in shame. Its big enough for 4 adults. Doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles but it goes from point a to point b at 53 MPG and cost less than $15K out the door
That model is being discontinued because nobody wants to buy it. Americans like big cars.
But yeah….most EV’s are larger and cost more. The closest is probably the Chevy Bolt, but even that is more like a Corolla or Jetta sized hatchback - the next size up from that Mitsubishii. You can get the Bolt for about $23,000 after the tax credit. But it has only a 230 mile range. That works for commuters but not for everyone.
The $22,000 Corolla hybrid is a very compelling choice for a commuter vehicle. That’s an incredible deal for an extremely fuel efficient, reliable car. It should be more popular than it actually is right now.
Posted on 11/14/23 at 3:31 pm to jordan21210
quote:
Tesla build quality is on par with domestic manufacturers like Ford, GM, and Chrysler
I don’t think that’s true. Tesla is about where those companies were 20 years ago.
I love Tesla and I appreciate Musk. But build quality, paint quality, and panel fitment isn’t really what they do well. They are improving, but they are very far behind in that area.
This post was edited on 11/14/23 at 3:32 pm
Posted on 11/14/23 at 3:38 pm to dewster
quote:
I don’t think that’s true. Tesla is about where those companies were 20 years ago.
I love Tesla and I appreciate Musk. But build quality, paint quality, and panel fitment isn’t really what they do well. They are improving, but they are very far behind in that area.
I find the issue mostly blown out of proportion for a commuter car. I'm more picky than most and i just can't get worked up about not enough paint inside the truck or something.
As far as comparison to the big three, depends on what you look at. Dodge's slinging wheels off going down the road and in the time it took me to type this Ford issues another recall.
Posted on 11/14/23 at 4:27 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
EVs are a very expensive virtue signal, nothing more
Hard to believe for some of you, but not everything is a political statement.
I have a Tesla because I think it’s fun to drive and like the tech. I don’t care at all what anyone else drives, EV or ICE. I’d say that’s likely the case for the majority of people.
The people who have taken such a strong interest in what other people drive (both ways) are losers.
ETA:
I’ve spent an estimated $910 so far this year to charge my car, including at home and supercharging. That’s on roughly 10,000 miles. So these numbers seem suspect
This post was edited on 11/14/23 at 4:31 pm
Posted on 11/14/23 at 4:31 pm to texag7
That's a steal
Posted on 11/14/23 at 4:36 pm to billjamin
quote:
I find the issue mostly blown out of proportion for a commuter car. I'm more picky than most and i just can't get worked up about not enough paint inside the truck or something.
Some of the Tesla fans demand that they be weighed against BMW’s, Acuras, and Cadillacs from a value perspective. But weighed against commuter cars from a quality perspective.
They are remedying it by having a much more minimalist design. But they are pretty far behind in quality. You can see that in a short drive. But if it’s a Plaid and it accelerates super fast…. you won’t really care.
This post was edited on 11/14/23 at 4:38 pm
Posted on 11/14/23 at 4:40 pm to dewster
quote:
Some of the Tesla fans demand that they be weighed against BMW’s and Cadillacs from a value perspective. But weighed against commuter cars from a quality perspective.
And the anti folks compare them to Corollas with cloth interior. Confirmationbiasdroppings has a way of doing that.
Performance, tech wise, they stack up or beat the BMW and Caddy. Build quality, it's mediocre.
Posted on 11/14/23 at 4:42 pm to texag7
This don’t make no sense where is the evidence? I can say gas cost $4 a gallon but without subsidies it’s $100 a gallon.
That’s literally what this dude said
That’s literally what this dude said
Posted on 11/15/23 at 11:54 am to billjamin
quote:
You'd owe someone a coke. the infrastructure needed to tele-work (broadband, cellular, etc) has been heavily subsidized. We have no where near the nationwide network we do now without heavy government intervention. Similar subsidization was made throughout the computer boom when electrical demand increased rapidly and the govt stepped in to make sure we could meet the additional grid demands.
You are 100% correct however those subsidies were not granted to facilitate teleworking they were granted to facilitate better communication which in turn facilitated teleworking...those subsidies were granted whether telecommuting was ever going to be a thing or not. The same is true for the subsidies for power production and distribution, they were done for many reasons none of which was teleworking. When you consider the energy wasted in commuting, providing power for conditioned air in 2 or more spaces because the occupant is away at work but their AC/furnace/water heater etc is still running I bet the money saved would surpass that which is supposed to be saved by EVs and Hybrids.
Posted on 11/15/23 at 12:00 pm to texag7
I've always said hybrid engines are the sweet spot right now.
Either I'm having a dumb day or this quote doesn't make a whole lot of sense... $1.21 per gallon + $1.38 for other equipment... that somehow equals $17.33 per gallon?? I must be missing something. Or is it the cost of the subsidies which I'm not sure he goes into detail about. What subsidies are the owners paying out of pocket?
Either I'm having a dumb day or this quote doesn't make a whole lot of sense... $1.21 per gallon + $1.38 for other equipment... that somehow equals $17.33 per gallon?? I must be missing something. Or is it the cost of the subsidies which I'm not sure he goes into detail about. What subsidies are the owners paying out of pocket?
quote:
"EV advocates claim that the cost of electricity for EV owners is equal to $1.21 per gallon of gasoline (Edison Electric Institute, 2021), but the cost of charging equipment and charging losses, averaged out over 10 years and 120,000 miles, is $1.38 per gallon equivalent on top of that. Adding the costs of the subsidies to the true cost of fueling an EV would equate to an EV owner paying $17.33 per gallon of gasoline," study authors Brent Bennett and Jason Isaac write.
This post was edited on 11/15/23 at 12:01 pm
Posted on 11/15/23 at 12:03 pm to dewster
EVs also are very heavy vehicles and drive like very heavy vehicles. Not knocking them. I almost got one for my last car, but decided it's not the right time yet.
This post was edited on 11/15/23 at 12:05 pm
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