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re: Who is the GOAT of all U.S generals?

Posted on 9/27/23 at 8:21 pm to
Posted by Wolfhound45
Hanging with Chicken in Lurkistan
Member since Nov 2009
120000 posts
Posted on 9/27/23 at 8:21 pm to
quote:

Sus-Scrofa
Nice synopsis. Well said.
Posted by Afish85
Member since Apr 2021
562 posts
Posted on 9/27/23 at 8:34 pm to
Came to say O. P. Smith, he was in command at Chosin , not Ridgeway.
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
72760 posts
Posted on 9/27/23 at 8:36 pm to
The dude was required reading in my company.
Posted by Wolfhound45
Hanging with Chicken in Lurkistan
Member since Nov 2009
120000 posts
Posted on 9/27/23 at 8:44 pm to
What most people did not realize is that total war is much more merciful than what we did for over twenty years in Afghanistan. If you are going to fight go all out and end it.
Posted by Rabby
Member since Mar 2021
586 posts
Posted on 9/27/23 at 8:48 pm to
quote:

You need to do more research on D-Day. There was far from a certain prospect of victory.
Actually, I was not referring to success on D-Day, but rather in the overall war effort. D-Day was important, but just as Dieppe had been a failure of a landing effort and the war continued, if Overlord had stumbled, so the allies would have continued in the fight. The USA in WW2 had amazing resources and was pouring them over the pond and would have made whatever sacrifices were needed to win.
Contrast that situation with Washington's army... The situations could not be more stark. He led a starving and dispirited group of men on the verge of evaporating to an energizing victory. He led from desperate situations many times and kept the effort alive. It was literally the difference between success and failure.
I stay with Washington - even after studying D-Day.
Posted by Adam Banks
District 5
Member since Sep 2009
32025 posts
Posted on 9/27/23 at 8:53 pm to
quote:

What most people did not realize is that total war is much more merciful than what we did for over twenty years in Afghanistan. If you are going to fight go all out and end it.



FAFO.


Dont start none there won’t be none.

Don’t be gentle. If you are the lay people forget how brutal war can be if a group tries to stir up trouble again.


This post was edited on 9/27/23 at 8:54 pm
Posted by Sam Quint
Member since Sep 2022
4785 posts
Posted on 9/27/23 at 9:03 pm to
quote:

What most people did not realize is that total war is much more merciful than what we did for over twenty years in Afghanistan. If you are going to fight go all out and end it.

This is stupid. You don't fight an insurgency with "total war".

Edit - I'm not say we are worth a shite at fighting insurgencies either. We're not.
This post was edited on 9/27/23 at 9:07 pm
Posted by LemmyLives
Texas
Member since Mar 2019
6547 posts
Posted on 9/27/23 at 9:09 pm to
Yeah, WWI and WWII were so much better. WTF? We can obviously go back farther than that, but total war undeniably sucks for civillians.

I get your military point that the objective is to kick the shite out of the enemy. But the decimation of total war on both military members and the civilian populace that occurs from total war is magnitudes worse.

Would I advocate for a nuke to be dropped on Tora Bora? Maybe. But then we wouldn't have proof that a-hole was dead. In the age of social media, proof is almost as important as the 5.56 in the dome actually happening.
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
72760 posts
Posted on 9/28/23 at 6:14 am to
Well, they weren't an insurgency when we got there.
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64816 posts
Posted on 9/28/23 at 6:25 am to
quote:

Patton


One of the best for sure. However, his weak point was logistics. Also, while he did right the ship in II Corps after Kasserine Pass, his leadership of it in the North African campaign was not what I’d call stellar.

As for my pick for GOAT American General, the choice is obvious, even though there are many great generals to choose from. The greatest of all time is Lt. General Thomas Jonathan Jackson.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
36311 posts
Posted on 9/28/23 at 6:29 am to
Ulysses S. Grant
Posted by LSU03
Tiger Mecca (aka Baton Rouge)
Member since Dec 2003
514 posts
Posted on 9/28/23 at 6:30 am to
quote:


quote:


This is the correct answer. The first president of LSU invented modern warfare almost 100 years before WWII.

WWI, the Spanish American War, and several other interveneing conflicts around the world represented a step backwards from his tactical genius.
Posted by LSU03
Tiger Mecca (aka Baton Rouge)
Member since Dec 2003
514 posts
Posted on 9/28/23 at 6:44 am to
quote:

So you praise one commander for burning out the civilian population of an entire valley using total war tactics then castigate another for Ft Pillow, interesting.


One general was suppressing a rebellion, the other was a traitor fighting against the United States of America, so, yeah, the standard is by necessity different. One of them also continued to run a terrorist insurgency against US citizens long after his side surrendered.
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64816 posts
Posted on 9/28/23 at 6:47 am to
quote:

One general was suppressing a rebellion, the other was a traitor fighting against the United States of America, so, yeah, the standard is by necessity different. One of them also continued to run a terrorist insurgency against US citizens long after his side surrendered.


I feel bad for people who lack the intellectual capacity to judge history from an objective standpoint and instead allow political considerations cloud their judgment.
Posted by Wolfhound45
Hanging with Chicken in Lurkistan
Member since Nov 2009
120000 posts
Posted on 9/28/23 at 6:47 am to
quote:

This is stupid. You don't fight an insurgency with "total war".

Edit - I'm not say we are worth a shite at fighting insurgencies either. We're not.
So you just prefer twenty years of conflict instead?

Yeah, that makes sense.
Posted by Damone
FoCo
Member since Aug 2016
32966 posts
Posted on 9/28/23 at 6:55 am to
It’s hilarious seeing the Lost Cause losers get angry over the mention of Sherman. They’re still salty all these years later that their loser ancestors got their asses smoked by him.
This post was edited on 9/28/23 at 7:01 am
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64816 posts
Posted on 9/28/23 at 7:05 am to
quote:

It’s hilarious seeing the Lost Cause losers get angry over the mention of Grant. They’re still salty all these years later that their loser ancestors got their asses smoked by him.


Grant was a great general in that he recognized the advantages the Union had over the Confederacy and how to capitalize on those advantages.

One knock against him, fair or not, was he tended to win via attrition. However, when you look at the task laid before him, I don’t see how he could have taken a different approach and still get the results he did.
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
65147 posts
Posted on 9/28/23 at 7:31 am to
quote:

One knock against him, fair or not, was he tended to win via attrition.


This is not true at all. His campaign against Lee was the exception to the rule. And even though he defeated Lee via attrition, his undetected move around Lee’s right at Cold Harbor and across the James River was a triumph of logistics and maneuver.
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64816 posts
Posted on 9/28/23 at 7:39 am to
Allow me to rephrase, he was willing to accept casualties on a scale previous Union commanders shied away from. It’s one of the reasons Lincoln liked him. He was willing to stand and fight.
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
65147 posts
Posted on 9/28/23 at 7:45 am to
quote:

Allow me to rephrase, he was willing to accept casualties on a scale previous Union commanders shied away from.


Once again, this is a myth. Ulysses S. Grant, throughout the entirety of the American Civil War, would see 154,000 Union soldiers fall as casualties of war in his armies. However, his armies inflicted 191,000 total casualties on the Confederacy in a winning effort. Compare that to the 209,000 casualties that Lee sustained in just one Theater of operation, in a losing effort mind you, and ask yourself the question of who was really fighting a war of attrition.

Grant's reputation as a hard-fighting butcher with no regard for losses was created by Southern historians of the war in the latter half of the 19th century. This couldn't be further from the truth. The way he was trying to fight the Overland Campaign - attempting to flank around behind Lee and forcing him to fight an offensive battle on the Union's terms - should be clear that he wasn't some heartless man with no regard for human life.
This post was edited on 9/28/23 at 7:53 am
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