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401k calculator question (and money spend in retirement)

Posted on 7/20/23 at 1:40 pm
Posted by Im4datigers
Northern Virginia
Member since Oct 2003
4649 posts
Posted on 7/20/23 at 1:40 pm
All of these calculators ask what percentage of your current salary do you anticipate needing during retirement. But then these calculators fix this percentage over all years post retirement.

I’m thinking (for example) that I need $150k during my prime years of retirement (say 65-75). In my mind I’m thinking my spending drops dramatically after that point as there is less travel, lifestyle etc etc and there’s no way I’m spending $150k a year in my late 70’s and 80’s. All these retirement calculators assume I will though.

Obviously that can change dramatically with health, needing home health etc etc. but am I missing some thought process there?
Posted by JohnnyKilroy
Cajun Navy Vice Admiral
Member since Oct 2012
40326 posts
Posted on 7/20/23 at 2:02 pm to
quote:

Obviously that can change dramatically with health, needing home health etc etc. but am I missing some thought process there?


I think you just answered your question.

Healthcare expenses are highly likely to skyrocket as you get into your 70s and certainly in your 80s.

Posted by La Place Mike
West Florida Republic
Member since Jan 2004
30920 posts
Posted on 7/20/23 at 3:41 pm to
Yes most calculators assume you are spending the same year after year. Below is a link that I posted in another that addresses spending during retirement.


quote:

With the spending smile, the initial spending rate can increase to account for subsequent spending declines. In this case, the worst-case initial spending rate rose to 4.73%, which represents an increase in the initial distribution rate of 17% – just by using a more appropriate retirement spending model. For a retiree basing their spending on these historical worst-case numbers, the retirement smile pattern would allow retirement to begin with almost 15% less accumulated wealth than otherwise.


Spending Smile

Posted by CharlesUFarley
Daphne, AL
Member since Jan 2022
900 posts
Posted on 7/20/23 at 4:30 pm to
I just write excel spreadsheets, and project for each year. It doesn't take long. You can then use different rates of return and different spending amounts for each year if you want to. You will never be correct in your projections doing this, however, you will get an idea of how major spending events affect your assets, and then you can consider ways to adjust to those events. Even the most sophisticated calculators assume linear spending, and usually a linear rate of return. In just the last two years or so we've seen the return on cash go from less than 0.75% to 5%+. That ought to give you an idea about how linear the real world is.

Posted by gpburdell
ATL
Member since Jun 2015
1579 posts
Posted on 7/20/23 at 6:07 pm to
My plan is to use a variable percentage withdrawal strategy (VPW). Boglehead person came up with a good VPW spreadsheet.

With it you are meant to update once per year in retirement and it will tell you much to take out for that year. I will use this as a guide to help me determine my actual withdrawal. The spreadsheet supports before retirement as well to help forecast etc.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Variable_percentage_withdrawal

https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=284519

Also, I'm planning to buy this later this year which is more sophisticated to help model what different retirement income scenarios look like etc.

https://pralanaretirementcalculator.com/pralana-gold/

It's $99 but now that I'm in sight of early retirement; it's worth it for me. Also, I can use it for my mom as I manager her finances & investments too. She's now at the point where I have to watch out for IRMAA penalties for RMDs, Roth conversions, SS etc.
Posted by Im4datigers
Northern Virginia
Member since Oct 2003
4649 posts
Posted on 7/20/23 at 7:25 pm to
quote:

Healthcare expenses are highly likely to skyrocket as you get into your 70s and certainly in your 80s.


Yes, I get that you have to look at it worst case. But as my healthcare skyrockets, my monthly spend will also decrease as well (very likely at a greater rate) if my health is in decline. I won’t be traveling the world and buying hookers and blow anymore lol
Posted by Costanza
Member since May 2011
3264 posts
Posted on 7/20/23 at 7:47 pm to
Inflation feels pretty damn important. 150k today may be 250-300k in 20 years (or whenever you’re retiring).

Posted by TorchtheFlyingTiger
1st coast
Member since Jan 2008
2920 posts
Posted on 7/20/23 at 8:12 pm to
I like this one. The Optimal Retirement Planner (specifically the extended version) allows for phases of retirement spending and one off expenses. It also models for tax optimized withdrawals from various buckets including Roth conversions. You can also save plans so you can tweek things from a baseline without reinputing all variables.
i-ORP (extended)
Posted by La Place Mike
West Florida Republic
Member since Jan 2004
30920 posts
Posted on 7/20/23 at 8:36 pm to
quote:

But as my healthcare skyrockets, my monthly spend will also decrease as well (very likely at a greater rate) if my health is in decline.


"Sky rocketing" healthcare expenses can be plateaued and managed with Medicare and a Supplemental Gap Plan or an Advantage plan. The bigger concern would be Long Term Care expenses.
This post was edited on 7/20/23 at 8:37 pm
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