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401k calculator question (and money spend in retirement)
Posted on 7/20/23 at 1:40 pm
Posted on 7/20/23 at 1:40 pm
All of these calculators ask what percentage of your current salary do you anticipate needing during retirement. But then these calculators fix this percentage over all years post retirement.
I’m thinking (for example) that I need $150k during my prime years of retirement (say 65-75). In my mind I’m thinking my spending drops dramatically after that point as there is less travel, lifestyle etc etc and there’s no way I’m spending $150k a year in my late 70’s and 80’s. All these retirement calculators assume I will though.
Obviously that can change dramatically with health, needing home health etc etc. but am I missing some thought process there?
I’m thinking (for example) that I need $150k during my prime years of retirement (say 65-75). In my mind I’m thinking my spending drops dramatically after that point as there is less travel, lifestyle etc etc and there’s no way I’m spending $150k a year in my late 70’s and 80’s. All these retirement calculators assume I will though.
Obviously that can change dramatically with health, needing home health etc etc. but am I missing some thought process there?
Posted on 7/20/23 at 2:02 pm to Im4datigers
quote:
Obviously that can change dramatically with health, needing home health etc etc. but am I missing some thought process there?
I think you just answered your question.
Healthcare expenses are highly likely to skyrocket as you get into your 70s and certainly in your 80s.
Posted on 7/20/23 at 3:41 pm to Im4datigers
Yes most calculators assume you are spending the same year after year. Below is a link that I posted in another that addresses spending during retirement.
Spending Smile
quote:
With the spending smile, the initial spending rate can increase to account for subsequent spending declines. In this case, the worst-case initial spending rate rose to 4.73%, which represents an increase in the initial distribution rate of 17% – just by using a more appropriate retirement spending model. For a retiree basing their spending on these historical worst-case numbers, the retirement smile pattern would allow retirement to begin with almost 15% less accumulated wealth than otherwise.
Spending Smile
Posted on 7/20/23 at 4:30 pm to La Place Mike
I just write excel spreadsheets, and project for each year. It doesn't take long. You can then use different rates of return and different spending amounts for each year if you want to. You will never be correct in your projections doing this, however, you will get an idea of how major spending events affect your assets, and then you can consider ways to adjust to those events. Even the most sophisticated calculators assume linear spending, and usually a linear rate of return. In just the last two years or so we've seen the return on cash go from less than 0.75% to 5%+. That ought to give you an idea about how linear the real world is.
Posted on 7/20/23 at 6:07 pm to Im4datigers
My plan is to use a variable percentage withdrawal strategy (VPW). Boglehead person came up with a good VPW spreadsheet.
With it you are meant to update once per year in retirement and it will tell you much to take out for that year. I will use this as a guide to help me determine my actual withdrawal. The spreadsheet supports before retirement as well to help forecast etc.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Variable_percentage_withdrawal
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=284519
Also, I'm planning to buy this later this year which is more sophisticated to help model what different retirement income scenarios look like etc.
https://pralanaretirementcalculator.com/pralana-gold/
It's $99 but now that I'm in sight of early retirement; it's worth it for me. Also, I can use it for my mom as I manager her finances & investments too. She's now at the point where I have to watch out for IRMAA penalties for RMDs, Roth conversions, SS etc.
With it you are meant to update once per year in retirement and it will tell you much to take out for that year. I will use this as a guide to help me determine my actual withdrawal. The spreadsheet supports before retirement as well to help forecast etc.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Variable_percentage_withdrawal
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=284519
Also, I'm planning to buy this later this year which is more sophisticated to help model what different retirement income scenarios look like etc.
https://pralanaretirementcalculator.com/pralana-gold/
It's $99 but now that I'm in sight of early retirement; it's worth it for me. Also, I can use it for my mom as I manager her finances & investments too. She's now at the point where I have to watch out for IRMAA penalties for RMDs, Roth conversions, SS etc.
Posted on 7/20/23 at 7:25 pm to gpburdell
quote:
Healthcare expenses are highly likely to skyrocket as you get into your 70s and certainly in your 80s.
Yes, I get that you have to look at it worst case. But as my healthcare skyrockets, my monthly spend will also decrease as well (very likely at a greater rate) if my health is in decline. I won’t be traveling the world and buying hookers and blow anymore lol
Posted on 7/20/23 at 7:47 pm to Im4datigers
Inflation feels pretty damn important. 150k today may be 250-300k in 20 years (or whenever you’re retiring).
Posted on 7/20/23 at 8:12 pm to Im4datigers
I like this one. The Optimal Retirement Planner (specifically the extended version) allows for phases of retirement spending and one off expenses. It also models for tax optimized withdrawals from various buckets including Roth conversions. You can also save plans so you can tweek things from a baseline without reinputing all variables.
i-ORP (extended)
i-ORP (extended)
Posted on 7/20/23 at 8:36 pm to Im4datigers
quote:
But as my healthcare skyrockets, my monthly spend will also decrease as well (very likely at a greater rate) if my health is in decline.
"Sky rocketing" healthcare expenses can be plateaued and managed with Medicare and a Supplemental Gap Plan or an Advantage plan. The bigger concern would be Long Term Care expenses.
This post was edited on 7/20/23 at 8:37 pm
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