Things like -

1. Proof that tens of thousands of voters were disenfranchised by being told to go to another voting center and then not being able to vote. This is a claim, but there's nothing out there that suggests it's accurate. KL's own lawyer said this happened to a few hundred voters - that they were given the option of going to another voting center, but when they got to the second center they were told they couldn't vote because they already had, having checked in at the first center. So the debate isn't whether this disenfranchised voters, it's whether it's a few hundred or tens of thousands.

2. Proof, as in a detailed accounting, of what tabulators malfunctioned and where, and was any voting center left with no working tabulators, or even just one. Each voting center had multiple tabulators.

3. An accounting of wait times. I have no doubt that there were onerous wait times at certain centers at certain times. That's pretty normal, especially when everyone gets off of work ... lines form. The worse I've experienced is about 90 minutes. Is that voter suppression? Is 2 hours? 3? At what point does a long wait become voter suppression? And how many voters encountered that sort of wait, and how many gave up?

4. Is there any evidence that any of the malfunctions, any of the chaos was by design rather than incompetence? There's nothing illegal about tabulators malfunctioning, but if they malfunction because they were set up to, those responsible should be in prison.

This post was edited on 11/23/22 at 9:49 pm

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Posted by LSUAngelHere1

Watson

Member since Jan 2018

8300 posts

Posted on 11/23/22 at 10:05 pm to David_DJS

quote:
1. Proof that tens of thousands of voters were disenfranchised by being told to go to another voting center and then not being able to vote. This is a claim, but there's nothing out there that suggests it's accurate. KL's own lawyer said this happened to a few hundred voters - that they were given the option of going to another voting center, but when they got to the second center they were told they couldn't vote because they already had, having checked in at the first center. So the debate isn't whether this disenfranchised voters, it's whether it's a few hundred or tens of thousands. 2. Proof, as in a detailed accounting, of what tabulators malfunctioned and where, and was any voting center left with no working tabulators, or even just one. Each voting center had multiple tabulators. 3. An accounting of wait times. I have no doubt that there were onerous wait times at certain centers at certain times. That's pretty normal, especially when everyone gets off of work ... lines form. The worse I've experienced is about 90 minutes. Is that voter suppression? Is 2 hours? 3? At what point does a long wait become voter suppression? And how many voters encountered that sort of wait, and how many gave up? 4. Is there any evidence that any of the malfunctions, any of the chaos was by design rather than incompetence? There's nothing illegal about tabulators malfunctioning, but if they malfunction because they were set up to, those responsible should be in prison.

All those words and all you had to say is that you think thousands of citizens are lying, they went thru the trouble of making fake videos with actors telling them they needed to go to another precinct to vote or to just trust them and leave their ballots in box 3….

Seems strange that you’d choose the word of corrupt govt officials over the citizens who are the victims here.

quote:
Is there any evidence that any of the malfunctions, any of the chaos was by design rather than incompetence?

Whether it was intentional or incompetence, citizens were victims of voter suppression and a new election needs to be held.

This post was edited on 11/23/22 at 10:15 pm

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Posted by cssamerican

Member since Mar 2011

7195 posts

Posted on 11/23/22 at 10:10 pm to David_DJS

quote:
1. Proof that tens of thousands of voters were disenfranchised by being told to go to another voting center and then not being able to vote. This is a claim, but there's nothing out there that suggests it's accurate. KL's own lawyer said this happened to a few hundred voters - that they were given the option of going to another voting center, but when they got to the second center they were told they couldn't vote because they already had, having checked in at the first center. So the debate isn't whether this disenfranchised voters, it's whether it's a few hundred or tens of thousands.

I’m not sure how you could ever get definitive proof. There is no way to look at every claim or non-claim at this point and prove it either way.

quote:
2. Proof, as in a detailed accounting, of what tabulators malfunctioned and where, and was any voting center left with no working tabulators, or even just one. Each voting center had multiple tabulators.

Who if anyone is responsible for recording data on this? If the answer is no one your asking for documentation that doesn’t exist even if the claims are true.

quote:
3. An accounting of wait times. I have no doubt that there were onerous wait times at certain centers at certain times. That's pretty normal, especially when everyone gets off of work ... lines form. The worse I've experienced is about 90 minutes. Is that voter suppression? Is 2 hours? 3? At what point does a long wait become voter suppression? And how many voters encountered that sort of wait, and how many gave up?

You’re right that voter suppression in cases like this are a matter of opinion, but consider that 80% of Arizona voted by mail, you have to question long lines on Election Day as odd.

quote:
4. Is there any evidence that any of the malfunctions, any of the chaos was by design rather than incompetence? There's nothing illegal about tabulators malfunctioning, but if they malfunction because they were set up to, those responsible should be in prison.

I’m not sure how you would expect to prove tabulators were sabotaged for part of the day and later fixed days after the event.

This is the issue with the I need proof crowd and that proof needs to be smoking gun. We need to get passed this and look at statistics and anomalies. For example, chess.com will suspend your account for cheating, but how can they prove it? They just look at your moves and see if you’re are playing in a way that is statistically improbable. If you go to a casino and play a single number on the roulette table and hit 5 times in a row, they don’t need proof you were cheating because they know you are because statistics tell them so.

Ask yourself this, why does one side consistently argue for voting laws that weaken the strength of voter integrity rules? Then realize those same people are winning elections through mail in ballots with candidates who don’t campaign, yet are getting record turnout numbers. Statistics and common sense tells me they are cheating. I don’t need to see the smoking gun to know it’s happening.

This post was edited on 11/23/22 at 10:14 pm

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