quote:
In your opinion, were these beagles not tortured? And in your opinion does Fauci bear any responsibility for this facility that is being shut down?

i assume you mean the envigo beagles in particular.

no i dont. i think they were grossly mistreated. Torture is intentional and malicious. What happened in that case was negligence. No less forgivable, but different. The envigo site was justly shut down. Its a big stain on animal research and a set back in public opinion. that is FAR, FAR from the norm when it comes to the care and use of animals in research.

Is Fauci responsible for that? no. So lets play out the fantasy that he oversees how every single NIH grant is distributed (he doesnt, realistically, he probably has no say in any, i cant say for sure though). Those funds (grants, not contract, but i digress) would go to individual research. How the research uses those funds to acquire animals depends on the principle investigator (the person doing the research). the
NIH would have no authority over Envigo, a company who is specific purpose breeding beagles for the sale of animals for research. They arent funding envigo to breed animals for sale (not directly). Envigo would be doing that with or without government purchases.

The entity who would be responsible for the oversight of Envigo since they are breeding animals for research that are usda regulated species (dogs are one such species) would be the USDA. By law (the animal welfare act and regulations) the envigo site would be inspected by the usda every 6 months by an appropriate team of inspectors. They have the authority to shut it down, and did.

Since its a private company, the person responsible should be the CEO and the board. their heads should roll for letting those dogs down by providing that type of care and environment for them. If there is evidence the USDA wasnt doing their job and allowed this to go on without repercussion, it would be the state director of the usda that would be in for a shite storm.

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Posted by pankReb

Defending National Champs Fan

Member since Mar 2009

66269 posts

Posted on 7/12/22 at 4:08 pm to caro81

quote:
no i dont. i think they were grossly mistreated. Torture is intentional and malicious. What happened in that case was negligence. No less forgivable, but different.

Nah....frick you.

Intentional negligence IS torture. This wasn't like they didn't realize a dog had a gluten allergy. The people running that facility KNEW what they were doing to those dogs and it went on for long enough that PETA had to infiltrate the facility.

quote:
the envigo site would be inspected by the usda every 6 months by an appropriate team of inspectors.

They should be fired.....immediately. The USDA investigation was based upon PETA's findings after they concluded their investigations.

also you're gonna hate this but....

quote:
Since September 2020, the National Institutes of Health (NIH), already under fire for funding cruel experiments on dogs, has awarded three contracts to Envigo for live dogs.

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Posted by TX Tiger

at home

Member since Jan 2004

35890 posts

Posted on 7/12/22 at 8:39 pm to caro81

quote:
In your opinion, were these beagles not tortured? And in your opinion does Fauci bear any responsibility for this facility that is being shut down?

i assume you mean the envigo beagles in particular.

no i dont. i think they were grossly mistreated. Torture is intentional and malicious. What happened in that case was negligence. No less forgivable, but different. The envigo site was justly shut down. Its a big stain on animal research and a set back in public opinion. that is FAR, FAR from the norm when it comes to the care and use of animals in research.

Is Fauci responsible for that? no. So lets play out the fantasy that he oversees how every single NIH grant is distributed (he doesnt, realistically, he probably has no say in any, i cant say for sure though). Those funds (grants, not contract, but i digress) would go to individual research. How the research uses those funds to acquire animals depends on the principle investigator (the person doing the research). the
NIH would have no authority over Envigo, a company who is specific purpose breeding beagles for the sale of animals for research. They arent funding envigo to breed animals for sale (not directly). Envigo would be doing that with or without government purchases.

The entity who would be responsible for the oversight of Envigo since they are breeding animals for research that are usda regulated species (dogs are one such species) would be the USDA. By law (the animal welfare act and regulations) the envigo site would be inspected by the usda every 6 months by an appropriate team of inspectors. They have the authority to shut it down, and did.

Since its a private company, the person responsible should be the CEO and the board. their heads should roll for letting those dogs down by providing that type of care and environment for them. If there is evidence the USDA wasnt doing their job and allowed this to go on without repercussion, it would be the state director of the usda that would be in for a shite storm.

Thank you for the clarification. Up until now, I had only heard one side of the story.