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Started By
Message
re: LA Legislature to address Teacher Shortage using Retirees earning 50%.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 12:18 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
Posted on 3/14/22 at 12:18 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
A teacher once told me that education is the one thing that people don't want to get their money's worth.
That purely depends on where you are standing. I’m sure people in Baltimore, Chicago, Atlanta, Detroit, Milwaukee, etc would absolutely love to.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 12:20 pm to anc
quote:
The biggest lie we have told society is that we underpay teachers.
This is 100% true.
Especially in Missouri. We have a phenomenal teacher’s retirement system. So that pay extends all the way into their retirement.
An example, Parkway School District is a large district in suburban St. Louis. If you get a Masters degree and teach for 20 years, you’re making $83,000/yr this year.
In retirement at 30 years, assuming no increase in salary, you’d get around $7k/mo in pension benefits and be allowed to purchase your health insurance in the group until 65.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 12:56 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
Teachers want to be paid like professionals, as they have earned a college degree.
But they also want to be part of a union, like they are a tradesman.
Teachers want to be paid more... but they don't want to be paid based upon individual effort and results.
I'm willing to pay good teachers 6 figures for 10 months of work, if I can easily fire the crappy ones.
And guess what? Start paying the good ones really well, and magically, you will have more good ones.
That's about as good a post on education and teacher pay as you can get.
Now if we can just figure out a way to know who the good ones are...
Posted on 3/14/22 at 1:00 pm to CleverUserName
quote:
So newer educators are actually earning almost 30 bucks an hour for actual time worked. About the same as Dental Hygienists.
So we pay teachers with a degree the same way we pay people who get an associates degree.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 1:01 pm to the808bass
quote:
An example, Parkway School District is a large district in suburban St. Louis. If you get a Masters degree and teach for 20 years, you’re making $83,000/yr this year.
That's tremendous. More than what they pay in LA.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 1:08 pm to BigJim
quote:
Now if we can just figure out a way to know who the good ones are...
The only way that will truly work is a value added metric.
Fifth grade teacher starts the year with 28 students in a classroom. Based upon how those 28 kids did, as a cohort, on fourth grade testing / grades, it can be predicted how that class will perform on fifth grade testing / grades.
If the cohort beats the prediction - great teacher, consider more pay and promotion to "better" classes
If the cohort meets the prediction - good teacher, pay average
If the cohort fails the prediction - potentially a bad teacher. First year, free pass. Second year in a row, additional training / work with a mentor teacher. Third year in a row, find a new position.
Teachers cannot be held responsible for the crap teaching the kids received prior, or the crap family environment, etc. They can only be held responsible for the value they add, compared to expectation.
We have now over 20 years of state testing data. We can do longitudinal analysis and predictive scoring. The tools are all there, just need to use them.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 1:15 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
The only way that will truly work is a value added metric.
I am all for that.
However, I think that system falls apart outside of elementary school.
And even at elementary schools you have specialist teachers (PE, art, music, etc) who would need a different system.
And on a political level there would be a lot of upset teachers who discover they are not as good they thought they were because they had good (often middle-class) students.
That said, we shouldn't make the perfect the enemy of the good.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 1:17 pm to frequent flyer
quote:
A lot of teachers suck in Louisiana. And I'm not saying that teachers are underpaid. But it's pretty clear that Louisiana isn't always getting the best and brightest for this line of work.
And what is there to attract "the Best and Brightest " to live and work in Louisiana ?
Posted on 3/14/22 at 1:18 pm to boudinman
You didn’t read the bill, did you?
Posted on 3/14/22 at 1:21 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:Well a lot of teachers have general studies degrees along with other shite degrees so let’s not get out of hand.
So newer educators are actually earning almost 30 bucks an hour for actual time worked. About the same as Dental Hygienists.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 1:22 pm to boudinman
quote:
Teaching is a noble profession
Posted on 3/14/22 at 1:28 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
So we pay teachers with a degree the same way we pay people who get an associates degree.
You mean like the real world? You know the founder of Microsoft dropped out of college don’t you?
There are farmers who make more than lawyers. There are small business owners who make more than engineers. Should oil rig workers make less than interior designers??
Posted on 3/14/22 at 1:35 pm to BigJim
quote:
And even at elementary schools you have specialist teachers (PE, art, music, etc) who would need a different system.
Did you ever have a bad PE teacher? Or a good PE teacher?
All I had were coaches who just let us do whatever.
quote:
However, I think that system falls apart outside of elementary school
I think it would work pretty well with your building block subjects like matn and ELA.
Science and social studies, where the subject material changes from year to year, it would be harder, sure. But the cohorts would be larger, because you are teaching more kids a day. You could still use data to say, these 110 kids averaged a score of X on US History, kids who got a similar score on US History averaged a Y score in Civics.
Having a larger cohort would reduce the impact from some kids just deciding to screw around or something.
quote:
And on a political level there would be a lot of upset teachers who discover they are not as good they thought they were because they had good (often middle-class) students.
I've often said that a teacher who can bring a D inner city student to a C inner city student is a better teacher than one that can bring a B middle class student to an A middle class student.
I think such a system WOULD tell us who the best teachers are, and they aren't going to be the ones we think they are.
That's ok.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 1:36 pm to TrouserTrout
quote:
Well a lot of teachers have general studies degrees along with other shite degrees so let’s not get out of hand.
The only teachers I've seen with a general studies degree are the teach for america / alternate cert types.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 1:37 pm to CleverUserName
quote:
You mean like the real world? You know the founder of Microsoft dropped out of college don’t you?
There are farmers who make more than lawyers. There are small business owners who make more than engineers. Should oil rig workers make less than interior designers??
Of course... but all of them took risks to get there. And only a small percentage are that successful.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 1:55 pm to CleverUserName
I didn’t argue hourly wage I was simply pointing out how the pay works. You are correct in the math. If for example someone is on maternity leave, once their 10 days are used the pay is deducted at “daily rate of pay” based on number of hours worked, not 12 paychecks. Truthfully looking at hourly wage it’s not indecent pay. I was just explaining how it is paid. Many teachers coach or work another job if they want more.
I know many good teachers that work very hard in a system that is against them much of the time. Most are very quiet about what they do for a living because they are ashamed of the behavior of their coworkers or unions that pretend to represent them but do not. These are the ones that are in it for the right reasons. There are some. These people you would WANT teaching your children.
I know many good teachers that work very hard in a system that is against them much of the time. Most are very quiet about what they do for a living because they are ashamed of the behavior of their coworkers or unions that pretend to represent them but do not. These are the ones that are in it for the right reasons. There are some. These people you would WANT teaching your children.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 2:11 pm to BugAC
quote:The outlier is the unions and their affiliated teachers. All teachers I associate with believe that going virtual was an unmitigated disaster that they're going to have to pay for for years to come. The media never covered those teachers.
Sure there is the outlier that actually gives a shite about the kids, but mostly, they just want to be called "heroes" and demand a paycheck for not working.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 2:17 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
Of course... but all of them took risks to get there. And only a small percentage are that successful.
Again.. just like the real world.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 2:34 pm to LSUFanHouston
We would see a repeat of the Atlanta school controversy where the teachers were changing the test answers so the kids would meet standards.
Posted on 3/14/22 at 2:47 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:What, exactly, did you read in that article that makes you think that?
Right now, a retired teacher can return to the classroom as a teacher and get full teacher pay plus 25% of normal retirement pay.
So sassy for someone who is wrong
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