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September 23, 1944 - Operation Market Garden Begins
Posted on 9/23/23 at 9:07 am
Posted on 9/23/23 at 9:07 am
It is 265 weeks since Germany invaded Poland. Here is what was going on 79 years ago during the week of 17-23 September 1944:
YouTube - World War Two
quote:
Monty's Operation Market Garden, to drop men deep in the German rear in the Netherlands and secure a series of bridges, begins this week, but has serious trouble. In Italy the Allies take Rimini and San Marino, but over in the south seas the Americans have serious problems with the Japanese resistance on Peleliu. Finland and the USSR sign an armistice while in Estonia the Soviets take Tallinn. There are also Soviet plans being made to enter Yugoslavia.
YouTube - World War Two
7
Posted on 9/23/23 at 9:18 am to RollTide1987
AATW!
Posted on 9/23/23 at 9:19 am to Wolfhound45
My favorite named operation
This post was edited on 9/23/23 at 9:20 am
Posted on 9/23/23 at 9:20 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Americans have serious problems with the Japanese resistance on Peleliu
Rest his soul, my grandfather was in the 1st Marine Division on Peleliu. Until the day he died - if any Japanese looking people were around he was tensed up and watching them like a hawk.
I remember rounding the corner at the 84 World's Fair in New Orleans into the area where all the countries had exhibits. In all the crowds and the noise, he quickly saw the Japanese flag over their exhibit. He turned to my grandmother and calmly said "let's go" and we left that area immediately.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 9:22 am to RollTide1987
I bet Eisenhower had trouble sleeping the rest of his life regretting his agreement in letting Montgomery run that campaign.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 9:48 am to thejudge
quote:A Bridge Too Far - Horrocks speech
My favorite named operation
Posted on 9/23/23 at 9:52 am to RollTide1987
quote:Monty’s strategy sounds gay, tbh.
Monty's Operation Market Garden, to drop men deep in the German rear
Posted on 9/23/23 at 9:54 am to RollTide1987
The Drop Zones were too far away from the Objective - more than five miles away. Who planned this shite?
Posted on 9/23/23 at 10:14 am to RollTide1987
I asked BingChat to discuss the factors leading to the failure of Operation Market Garden:
The operation actually commenced on September 17, 1944
The operation actually commenced on September 17, 1944
quote:
Operation Market Garden was a daring Allied military operation in World War II that aimed to secure several bridges in the Netherlands and pave the way for an invasion of Germany. The operation was launched on September 17, 1944, and ended in failure on September 25, 1944. There were several factors that contributed to the failure of this operation 1:
Overambitious plan:
The plan was overly ambitious and relied on a single road for the entire project, which provided a constant, single point of failure. This vulnerability was compounded by the extremely difficult terrain in the area.
Logistical problems:
The Allies did not take the time to properly secure the vital port facilities at Antwerp, which meant that they continued to be dogged by logistical problems. The famous ‘Red Ball Express’ lorry convoys, all the way back to Cherbourg, reflected this failure.
German response:
The German 15th Army was able to keep the Scheldt estuary (and thus Antwerp) closed for too long, and it was then allowed to slip away, making all the difference to the subsequent response to Market Garden.
Timing and geometry:
There were problems of timing and geometry. To this day, large-scale airborne operations depend on the swift arrival of heavier friendly units. It is always a race. Horrocks, with the use of just one road, expected to be in Arnhem in only two days. Such complacent thinking speaks of a high command for whom the war in Europe was almost won.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 10:17 am to Champagne
It's very easy to make fun of the Allied operational plans for Market Garden in hindsight, mostly thanks to the 1977 Richard Attenborough film. However, I think the movie really over exaggerates the supposed ineptitude of the plan. Montgomery knew that the majority of Germans defending Holland were not just children and old men and was aware of crack SS panzer units billeted in the area. However, he gambled that these units would be tired and disorganized from the Germans' retreat through France and Belgium over the last few weeks. Market Garden was a Hail Mary pass to get over the Rhine and into Germany. The commanders involved knew that there were inherent risks but underestimated German resolve to continue the fight after their string of failures throughout the month of August.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 10:18 am to Tiger1242
quote:
I bet Eisenhower had trouble sleeping the rest of his life regretting his agreement in letting Montgomery run that campaign.
Ike had people he had to answer to. They put the pressure on him to greenlight this fiasco.
War even then was just politics by other means.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 10:22 am to Godfather1
quote:
War even then was just politics by other means.
It's always been that way. Carl von Clausewitz wrote those words over 100 years before the outbreak of the Second World War.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 10:39 am to RollTide1987
It was easy also for the Paras getting slaughtered by intense enemy MG42 automatic weapons fire to make fun of the plan. The Paras are famous for their "Gallows Humor."
Posted on 9/23/23 at 10:47 am to Godfather1
quote:
Ike had people he had to answer to. They put the pressure on him to greenlight this fiasco.
Oh no doubt about that.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 10:47 am to RollTide1987
I just watched that episode on Netflix
Posted on 9/23/23 at 10:55 am to Wolfhound45
Horrocks was a damn good General
This post was edited on 9/23/23 at 10:56 am
Posted on 9/23/23 at 11:03 am to RollTide1987
quote:
It's very easy to make fun of the Allied operational plans for Market Garden in hindsight, mostly thanks to the 1977 Richard Attenborough film. However, I think the movie really over exaggerates the supposed ineptitude of the plan. Montgomery knew that the majority of Germans defending Holland were not just children and old men and was aware of crack SS panzer units billeted in the area. However, he gambled that these units would be tired and disorganized from the Germans' retreat through France and Belgium over the last few weeks. Market Garden was a Hail Mary pass to get over the Rhine and into Germany. The commanders involved knew that there were inherent risks but underestimated German resolve to continue the fight after their string of failures throughout the month of August.
There’s no way to polish Montgomery’s Market Garden turd. He knew there was an entire SS Panzer Corps in the immediate vicinity. And even if they were depleted, Monty had already seen what depleted SS formations could do on the defensive only a few months ago in Caen. Minty also knew 30th Corp would be confined to a single two-lane road. Worse yet, he knew this small road was elevated, thus making any vehicle on it silhouetted to any flanking defensive force, which the road was lined with plenty of copses to provide ample flanking ambush attacks that only had to knock out a couple of vehicles to stop the entire column. And 30tb Corps could not even deploy its armored forces to repel these flank ambushes because their tanks would bog down in the soft ground on the sides of this elevated road.
Market Garden was just a bad idea from start to finish. Yes, the rewards would be great if it succeeded. But Monty allowed himself to be blinded by the potential rewards and failed to see the obvious obstacles to reaching that reward. And Ike isn’t free of blame either as he had overall command and he signed off on it.
This post was edited on 9/23/23 at 11:08 am
Posted on 9/23/23 at 11:24 am to Darth_Vader
It was a bad plan. Don't get me wrong. However, the movie made it out to be even worse than what it was in reality. There were merits. But those merits relied on assumptions.
Posted on 9/23/23 at 11:28 am to RollTide1987
quote:
It was a bad plan. Don't get me wrong. However, the movie made it out to be even worse than what it was in reality. There were merits. But those merits relied on assumptions.
Yeah. It was a good movie, but like most war movies, it’s dedication to being historically accurate was not exactly air tight.
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