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What was the Fan Reaction When the SEC Expanded to 12?
Posted on 10/6/11 at 9:16 am
Posted on 10/6/11 at 9:16 am
Does anyone remember any better than me? I was pretty young and not as plugged in. Were the majority of fans more excited about the additional teams and the start of the SECCG, or were they more worried about watering down the conference and losing rivalries?
The current expansion is obviously very controversial so I was wondering how it was last time around.
IMO, the 12 team SEC has been a huge success. I love the SECCG and the fact that we no longer have ties for the title. I like the divisions. We (Auburn) did lose the Florida rivalry, which sucks, but overall I think the twelve team conference has been a positive.
The current expansion is obviously very controversial so I was wondering how it was last time around.
IMO, the 12 team SEC has been a huge success. I love the SECCG and the fact that we no longer have ties for the title. I like the divisions. We (Auburn) did lose the Florida rivalry, which sucks, but overall I think the twelve team conference has been a positive.
6
Posted on 10/6/11 at 9:19 am to GumBro Jackson
You didn't have the mass outlets like we do now, but there were many expressing the same setiments about how "if it ain't broke why fix it" and "why are we adding mediocre football programs"
Posted on 10/6/11 at 9:30 am to H-Town Tiger
the SEC was all over Arkansas trying to get them for years and at the time Arkansas was a top 10 program year in and year out always in at least the Cotton Bowl every year. The SEC wanted Arkansas badly.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 9:41 am to HawgAlude
quote:
at the time Arkansas was a top 10 program year in and year out always in at least the Cotton Bowl every year.
Who are you the Ark Propaganda minister? Arky made back to back Cotton bowls in 89(1/1/90) and 90 (1/1/91) (both loses btw). Before that the last cotton bowl was 76. They did make a couple of Orange bowls 86, 77 and the Sugar Bowl in 79.
Arkansas was a very good program, but the SEC was also after A&M at the time.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 9:43 am to H-Town Tiger
SEC was very interested in teams like FSU and A&M with more impact but ended up getting arky and south carolina
I'm not sure that was a bad thing FWIW - a potential 8 powerhouse teams in a 12 team conference is kinda brutal
I'm not sure that was a bad thing FWIW - a potential 8 powerhouse teams in a 12 team conference is kinda brutal
Posted on 10/6/11 at 9:45 am to GumBro Jackson
Well, I was pizzed. I had bought my husband the TN print, Got Em Treed and had it professionally framed for his office. It's the print where Smoky has the other 9 mascots of the (then) SEC treed. It was not long before the expansion announcement and the print was passe'.
All of my extended family members (Alumni of 5 different SEC schools) were against the expansion. In hindsight, it worked well and the SEC championship game has been a real winner.
All of my extended family members (Alumni of 5 different SEC schools) were against the expansion. In hindsight, it worked well and the SEC championship game has been a real winner.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 9:47 am to molsusports
quote:
FSU and A&M
correct. These were the first choices at the time. A&M was just as good thru the 90's as Arky.
91 was different though, the SEC wanted to go to 12 teams to add a CCG. Both Arky and USC had large fan support and were good additions.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 9:48 am to H-Town Tiger
I know it wasn't done for basketball reasons, but the Hogs had a killer basketball program back then.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 9:54 am to H-Town Tiger
I remember that FSU was a major target who then passed. I didn't remember that A&M was also a target.
Was Arkansas the fallback for A&M and USC the fallback for FSU?
Seems like Arkansas was approximately equal to A&M on the field, whereas FSU was clearly the best of the four and SC was clearly a step below the ohter three. All four are pretty good "cultural" fits, whereas teams like Missouri and WVU are more of a stretch IMO.
Was Arkansas the fallback for A&M and USC the fallback for FSU?
Seems like Arkansas was approximately equal to A&M on the field, whereas FSU was clearly the best of the four and SC was clearly a step below the ohter three. All four are pretty good "cultural" fits, whereas teams like Missouri and WVU are more of a stretch IMO.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 9:59 am to GumBro Jackson
We thought the SEC would never play for a NC again because of the championship game. 
Posted on 10/6/11 at 10:01 am to GumBro Jackson
None of you dipshits are telling the truth.
The original plan was for expansion up to 14-16 teams.
Arkansas, Texas, A&M and FSU were the first approached.
There was no set number, as long as an even number was achieved.
There were no divisions set yet, either.
The original plan was for expansion up to 14-16 teams.
Arkansas, Texas, A&M and FSU were the first approached.
There was no set number, as long as an even number was achieved.
There were no divisions set yet, either.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 10:05 am to GumBro Jackson
quote:
Was Arkansas the fallback for A&M and USC the fallback for FSU?
fallback isn't the word I'd use. Its not now and wasn't then about on field success per se. Miami was the top football team and I don't think they were seriously an option because they didn't have a large loyal following. As you see now, unless they are winning the NC, fan support is very low. A&M gets you into Texas, but all 4 had good/loyal followings and and the extra $$$ from the CCG was a driving force.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 10:07 am to H-Town Tiger
None of the teams were "fallbacks". Even Carolina, although mentioned later than any of the others, was not a "fallback".
From the get-go, Kramer allowed that the SEC might go to 14 or even 16 teams. The discussions evolved from that point.
It turned out that only two teams who were asked wanted in back then, and that's all the SEC got.
Even if FSU, A&M and Texas joined Arkansas in the SEC, Carolina might have had their invite, too.
From the get-go, Kramer allowed that the SEC might go to 14 or even 16 teams. The discussions evolved from that point.
It turned out that only two teams who were asked wanted in back then, and that's all the SEC got.
Even if FSU, A&M and Texas joined Arkansas in the SEC, Carolina might have had their invite, too.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 10:09 am to wmr
quote:
None of you dipshits are telling the truth.
The original plan was for expansion up to 14-16 teams.
Arkansas, Texas, A&M and FSU were the first approached.
There was no set number, as long as an even number was achieved.
There were no divisions set yet, either.
No reason for name calling. I'm asking what happened b/c I don't remember it that well.
So your recollection is that the SEC wasn't looking for 12 per se, but for an even number at or above 12, and that Arkansas and SC were the two candidates that accepted? But that if A&M and FSU had been on board we would have gone to 14 at that time?
Posted on 10/6/11 at 10:13 am to GumBro Jackson
Look up some old articles from the time. They've been posted on here. When the SEC announced they were looking, they mentioned going to 14 or 16 teams.
Most people who paid attention back then thought that Texas, Texas A&M and Arkansas were a package deal, as they were the top teams from the SWC. FSU rounded that out nicely to 14. Miami was also mentioned. Carolina was mentioned.
Arkansas left, expecting Texas and A&M to follow. Under that scenario, there would have been 14 teams. When FSU balked, its likely Carolina would have made 14.
It wasn't an "either/or" kind of situation. It was fluid. It lasted for the better part of a year, with Arkansas joining, and then a couple of months later, Carolina joining.
The divisions weren't set for a few months after that.
Most people who paid attention back then thought that Texas, Texas A&M and Arkansas were a package deal, as they were the top teams from the SWC. FSU rounded that out nicely to 14. Miami was also mentioned. Carolina was mentioned.
Arkansas left, expecting Texas and A&M to follow. Under that scenario, there would have been 14 teams. When FSU balked, its likely Carolina would have made 14.
It wasn't an "either/or" kind of situation. It was fluid. It lasted for the better part of a year, with Arkansas joining, and then a couple of months later, Carolina joining.
The divisions weren't set for a few months after that.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 10:14 am to GumBro Jackson
quote:
What was the Fan Reaction When the SEC Expanded to 12?
Someone discovered an obscure clause in the NCAA rules that allows conferences with 12 teams in two divisions to have a championship game. It was written for some small college conference out west. The SEC saw $ signs.
Even then the SEC craved Texas markets. The SWC was falling apart on Arkansas wanted into the SEC. Frank Broyles assured Roy Cramer that if Arkansas joined the SEC that Texas and Texas A&M would follow. Beginning in 1960, FSU had applied for SEC membership time and again always to be rejected. Believe it or not their staunchest support was from Florida. So the plan was to add Arkansas, FSU, Texas and Texas A&M.
Arkansas applied and got in. FSU applied to the SEC, ACC and Big East. Bobby Bowden did not want to play in the SEC and on top of that FSU was a bit miffed after three decades of rejection. FSU was talking to all three conferences and the ACC started to emerge as their choice. Getting wind of it the SEC presidents voted unanimously against inviting FSU and they ended up in the ACC.
The Texas schools were not moving so quickly, so the SEC ultimately invited South Carolina, an independent, to join and balance out the divisions. Texas and Texas A&M stayed in the SWC for the next couple of years before flirting with the PAC and ultimately joining the Big 12.
I'll speak for myself. I wanted Arkansas, but not USC. I saw the Gamecocks as a weak program that belonged in the ACC where they once were. For years I looked on Arkansas and USC both as "the kids on the block" that really should sit down, shut up and wait to be told what to do. Time has changed my attitude.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 10:17 am to RhodeIslandRed
^^--pretty good summary.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 10:18 am to wmr
quote:
^^--pretty good summary.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 10:21 am to RhodeIslandRed
Interesting stuff. Thanks for the replies. That would have been a killer conference with Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, Florida, FSU, Georgia, LSU, Tenn, Texas and Texas A&M.
Sounds like A&M joining next year is the culmination of a plan made 20 years ago.
I do remember the worries that the SEC teams would beat up on each other and never get a national championship. In a sense that happened for a while, but once voters wised up then the domination began.
Sounds like A&M joining next year is the culmination of a plan made 20 years ago.
I do remember the worries that the SEC teams would beat up on each other and never get a national championship. In a sense that happened for a while, but once voters wised up then the domination began.
Posted on 10/6/11 at 10:32 am to GumBro Jackson
The main answer to your question is that there wasn't the kind of "fan reaction" as there is today because there simply wasn't a lot of information to be had and people didn't spend all day on the internet discussing things.
It was more of a "small blurb in the AP" in an actual newspaper or a snippet on the nightly sportscast.
There really wasn't a whole lot of information floating around for most people to pick over. It just kind of happened over a few months, and it was done.
It was more of a "small blurb in the AP" in an actual newspaper or a snippet on the nightly sportscast.
There really wasn't a whole lot of information floating around for most people to pick over. It just kind of happened over a few months, and it was done.
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