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Message

Circle the wagons...
Posted on 12/3/09 at 10:42 pm
Posted on 12/3/09 at 10:42 pm
OK, i have read all of this and this is my take. Many have tolerated Les Miles for the time he has been here. Yes, he does have a good won/loss record since he has been here. Many only recently this year began to verbally speak their disapproval. I happen to be one of those that was never pro Les, but as long as we were winning, kept my mouth shut.
Last year we lost 5 games and many didn't complain as much as now because we knew that we lost our starting quarterback and started the season behind the eight ball so to speak. However, there should not have been the same excuses this year. Les Miles' lack of coaching skills has been exposed all year long. When your offense is ranked 107th in the country, I don't care who your offensive coordinator is, you do something to change the way you are calling plays. We didn't see that because he is a player's/coaches coach. This is not the personality you need in a coach when things you are doing don't work. You need a coach that will right the ship away from the storm, not ride it out into the storm hoping the rain will stop.
Now we are in a predicament of epic proportions. We have a coach that still to this date has not made the changes necessary to right the ship. He wants his coaches to receive their bonuses for playing in a bowl game. He wants his coaches to have the ability to find other jobs before losing their current jobs. Or he just doesn't have the brains to know that he has already lost 40% of tiger nation and stands to lose another 40 percent should he not act quickly in revamping his coaching staff.
Many of the pro les people here are thinking that he will get the team back to playing like they were when he arrived. Folks, that is not going to happen. You have several players that were here when he arrived that had a good foundation to build on as developed by the previous regime. The studs that we are getting now, and we are really getting some quality recruits, only have their high school experience to build upon. They don't have the coaches with the ability to develop recruits when they get here.
I am not one saying that Saban's recruits was the reason Miles was so successful when he arrived, because, Les Miles has had just as good of recruiting classes since he has been here. I am saying that the players Les inherited when he arrived were coached and developed by Saban, which in my opinion is why Les was so successful when he arrived. Last year, the demise began as the majority of the players were players that didn't have much if any time in Saban's regime to develop and Les Miles does not provide the skills or personnel to get these kids playing at the level they should be playing as big time recruits in college.
Furthermore, I really don't understand how some here can think that with us losing over 20 seniors, having a schedule that is very much more difficult, having to deal with other programs in the West that are coming on strong, and dealing with the fact that we will either have the same offensive coaches or an entirely new scheme can think that we can enjoy anywhere near the so called success we had this year. Not going to happen. And the national perception of LSU as a program becomes even worse than it is right now. And then we are really in a predicament then with the rare upcoming 2011 signing class upon us after the program falls further.
I say give him the ax now, make the changes, we do not have near as much to lose now as we will next year.
Thoughts...
Last year we lost 5 games and many didn't complain as much as now because we knew that we lost our starting quarterback and started the season behind the eight ball so to speak. However, there should not have been the same excuses this year. Les Miles' lack of coaching skills has been exposed all year long. When your offense is ranked 107th in the country, I don't care who your offensive coordinator is, you do something to change the way you are calling plays. We didn't see that because he is a player's/coaches coach. This is not the personality you need in a coach when things you are doing don't work. You need a coach that will right the ship away from the storm, not ride it out into the storm hoping the rain will stop.
Now we are in a predicament of epic proportions. We have a coach that still to this date has not made the changes necessary to right the ship. He wants his coaches to receive their bonuses for playing in a bowl game. He wants his coaches to have the ability to find other jobs before losing their current jobs. Or he just doesn't have the brains to know that he has already lost 40% of tiger nation and stands to lose another 40 percent should he not act quickly in revamping his coaching staff.
Many of the pro les people here are thinking that he will get the team back to playing like they were when he arrived. Folks, that is not going to happen. You have several players that were here when he arrived that had a good foundation to build on as developed by the previous regime. The studs that we are getting now, and we are really getting some quality recruits, only have their high school experience to build upon. They don't have the coaches with the ability to develop recruits when they get here.
I am not one saying that Saban's recruits was the reason Miles was so successful when he arrived, because, Les Miles has had just as good of recruiting classes since he has been here. I am saying that the players Les inherited when he arrived were coached and developed by Saban, which in my opinion is why Les was so successful when he arrived. Last year, the demise began as the majority of the players were players that didn't have much if any time in Saban's regime to develop and Les Miles does not provide the skills or personnel to get these kids playing at the level they should be playing as big time recruits in college.
Furthermore, I really don't understand how some here can think that with us losing over 20 seniors, having a schedule that is very much more difficult, having to deal with other programs in the West that are coming on strong, and dealing with the fact that we will either have the same offensive coaches or an entirely new scheme can think that we can enjoy anywhere near the so called success we had this year. Not going to happen. And the national perception of LSU as a program becomes even worse than it is right now. And then we are really in a predicament then with the rare upcoming 2011 signing class upon us after the program falls further.
I say give him the ax now, make the changes, we do not have near as much to lose now as we will next year.
Thoughts...
Posted on 12/3/09 at 10:45 pm to deithree
Agree. While its impossible to tell the Miles fanatics this, next year will be sobering to them. I am not anti Miles, hope Les can prove us all wrong and would like to keep the guy but not at all costs. Next year its all Miles, a rebuilding year and a touggh schdule. Not 4 gimme out of conference games.
Again, it will be very sobering to some of those die hards.
Again, it will be very sobering to some of those die hards.
Posted on 12/3/09 at 10:45 pm to deithree
Yup fire a guy that won a national championship 2 years ago and is consistently recruiing top talent and has a chance to win 10 games. Definately in the same territory as hallman and there are 100s of coaches that would go 14-0 every year.
Are you fricking retarded or just flaming?
Are you fricking retarded or just flaming?
Posted on 12/3/09 at 10:46 pm to blackjackjackson
that is the best argument you can come up with?
Posted on 12/3/09 at 10:50 pm to ironsides
quote:
Yup fire a guy that won a national championship 2 years ago and is consistently recruiing top talent and has a chance to win 10 games. Definately in the same territory as hallman and there are 100s of coaches that would go 14-0 every year.
Are you one that thinks Crowton should be fired? If so, why, he had just as much to do with the national championship right? or was it all Les?
Posted on 12/3/09 at 11:03 pm to deithree
quote:
Furthermore, I really don't understand how some here can think that with us losing over 20 seniors
I think someone on this board said that out of the 125 man roster, 85 were underclassmen. If you look at the players Miles has recruited, you will see how many are redshirt freshmen and sophomores.
Posted on 12/3/09 at 11:10 pm to deithree
quote:
When your offense is ranked 107th in the country
Somehow this stat suddenly became the only barometer of success.
And I'm not reading all the rest of that shite.
Posted on 12/3/09 at 11:26 pm to deithree
who cares about the 20 players we are losing this year. they haven't been developed and therefore, by your line of reasoning, aren't any good anyway. see, they didn't have any coaching by saban or his asst coaches. your post is so flawed its laughable. when miles won his NC in his 3rd year the majority of the players had been developed by him and his staff. what you are not taking into acct. is that we had QB problems and we had OL problems. losing periloux and our horrible, above avg atrition at OL were the #1 cuprits. it really is that simple. there is no way miles and staff could have won 51 games in 5 yrs because of saban. that is unmitigated bull shite. miles first recruiting class was his worst. why? saban got friggin' lax after winning his NC in '03 and fricked the next coach. if anything, our '04 team hugely underperformed (under saban) and miles had a rough start with his '05 class as first year coaches usually do. miles will get this offense problem fixed and we will once again challenge for the west, the sec and occasionally the NC. if anything, miles has it tougher than saban did because the west is tougher than it has been in a long time. when saban won his NC, 4 out of the other 5 teams were down as only auburn really challenged us. your perception of reality is wrong. give miles a chance; he deserves it.
Posted on 12/3/09 at 11:34 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
While its impossible to tell the Miles fanatics this, next year will be sobering to them
many of your so called "miles fanatics" are just realists. WE DISAGREE WITH YOU! that doesn't make us wrong. you are not the all knowing football anaylst or fricking guru. i am not throwing in the towell on next years team before the friggin' season even starts like you are. if we can get this offense fixed, we have a damn bright future. saban and meyer better watch out. miles deserves a chance to turn it aroung and i believe he will do it. if he doesn't, then LSU needs to do something about that. of course, if we were to nilly willy fire him now as you and others are whining for, who's gonna pay the damned $15 million dollars! i'll bet you won't pony up a damn cent.
Posted on 12/3/09 at 11:38 pm to deithree
quote:
I say give him the ax now, make the changes, we do not have near as much to lose now as we will next year.
Again - what do you tell any possible candidates for the job, when the guy you're FIRING has the best 5 year tenure in the HISTORY of the program?-- Something like this maybe?
"Hey, Butch (or Skip, or Brian, or Mike or plug in your 'coach of the moment'), if you don't win 54 or 55 games in the next 5 years, your arse is as fired as Les Miles. Welcome aboard!"
Posted on 12/3/09 at 11:44 pm to LSU GrandDad
quote:
many of your so called "miles fanatics" are just realists. WE DISAGREE WITH YOU! that doesn't make us wrong. you are not the all knowing football anaylst or fricking guru
You are full of shite. I have supported Miles, continue to do so. Where we disagree is that you (being blind) think Les has shown the ability to contend for the SEC from here on out, and I see nothing to show he can.
Next year will be telling. Les will be here, so will I. When LSU shows it can beat Alabama and UF again, I will believe Les Miles has proved me wrong.
Just because I don't think Les Miles is an elite coach doesn't mean I don't support the guy.
Posted on 12/3/09 at 11:58 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
When LSU shows it can beat Alabama and UF again, I will believe Les Miles has proved me wrong.
Interesting yardstick - the previous coach only defeated Alabama and Florida in the same year once - 2004, though he never lost to both in the same year, either.
Miles has lost to both in the past two seasons, but defeated both in 2005, 2006 and 2007. Overall, the previous coach was a combined 6-4 against Florida and Alabama, and Miles is a combined 6-4 against Alabama.
Posted on 12/4/09 at 12:04 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Interesting yardstick - the previous coach only defeated Alabama and Florida in the same year once - 2004, though he never lost to both in the same year, either.
I am not a particular fan of the previous coach, except that he took a failing program and built it into a very good program. I see LSU going in reverse right now.
Said it before, will reiterate. I am not anti Miles. In fact, not sure there is anyone better LSU could get right now and certainly don't advocate firing him. But, unlike some others here I don't think Miles is being paid elite pay to have a 3rd or 3th place SEC team. If he shows he can field teams to compete, wonderful.
Next year will go farther in telling Les Miles direction of the program than any since he has been here.
Posted on 12/4/09 at 12:05 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Just because I don't think Les Miles is an elite coach doesn't mean I don't support the guy.
Which is fair. The problem I have with the Les haters is that their logic is just so fricking terrible. They think "Les is not elite = He sucks and I hate him." And that line of thinking is just fricking garbage.
I love Les. Do I think he's a great coach? Hell, no. But I know he's a good one. He's more than proven that. And I don't think you have to be great to be successful at LSU. Nor do I think there are that many great coaches. Especially ones who are available. And I actually love Les's Milesisms. I think they're hilarious. He's no genius, but he's funny, unique, and damn entertaining as far as I'm concerned.
And since my loathing would not be heard by any ears who matter(or give a shite), and my bitching would go the way of piss in the wind, I choose to enjoy the ride. It's a whole lot better way to live than holding my breath waiting for some imaginary ball to drop that may never, or crossing my fingers that one day--maybe 7 or 8 years later--I can join in on the masturbatory self-back-patting and scream from the mountaintops "I TOLD YOU SO--I'VE KNOWN SINCE TENNESSEE '05!!!" frick that noise. Life's too short.
Posted on 12/4/09 at 12:12 am to Hot Carl
Well, I am lukewarm to Miles and feel he isn't as hands on as he should be. LSU's W/L record is very good during his tenure, can't argue with that. Not going to get into all the details of what I think is wrong, just hope he can do it right from here on out, which is all that matters. He has next year and most likely more. We will see. Overall I would give him a B to this point, only because of the overall W/L record. Not the product on the field.
Posted on 12/4/09 at 4:19 am to deithree
quote:
I am saying that the players Les inherited when he arrived were coached and developed by Saban, which in my opinion is why Les was so successful when he arrived.
I have to side with the OP on this one. While I was never recruited by Saban or Miles - I did have an opportunity to be in the same plane as the cousin of one of the guys who was in the same high school as a student that Saban visited for evaluations.
The very next day, at the foosball table, I beat the two girls from HR whom I had never been able to beat before and improved from 0-141 to 2-145.
Shows the effect Saban has on people's athletic skills long after he has moved on from their lives.
This post was edited on 12/4/09 at 4:20 am
Posted on 12/4/09 at 12:09 pm to Hot Carl
quote:
masturbatory self-back-patting
Posted on 12/4/09 at 12:29 pm to Croozin2
Can't we just look at a coach and make an assessment of where they have been and where they are going and make a relatively accurate assessment? 51 wins don't mean much if the direction of the team is a downward progression. And all the Les loving in the world doesn't make up for the fact that we are in a downward progression the last two years.
107th in an of itself isn't a wonderful marker to look at, but it is a significant indication of a bigger problem.
I think the best thing to look at is 8-8 in SEC the last two year's. That just isn't cutting it at a school that has won two national titles recently.
Look, if you want to look at the overall picture of a coach that has been somewhere more than 5 years, Look at Bowden at FSU. Overall picture wise he is one of the greatest coaches in college football ever. Direction progression wise, they are a middle of the road ACC team and that is why they are moving on. You think their backers are wishing they could have done this 3 years ago? Yeah, maybe?
I do think that Miles has earned another year, but he's got to get back to a place where we are over 50% in SEC play every year. This year wasn't horrible, but alot of people are worried by the MissState, Georgia and Arkansas games and realize that we could easily be a 5-6 win team this year.
I was talking about that with my brother this week and he is convinced that if Chad Jones hadn't batted that pass away at Miss State the team would have cashed it in, just like last year and we would have won 6 games at most.
Either way, you can't just look at an overall picture. You have to look at direction. Were are you headed? After the Bowl game and the change at DC last year I was extremely optimistic about this year. But now I am just nervous about next year.
Hopefully I am wrong.
107th in an of itself isn't a wonderful marker to look at, but it is a significant indication of a bigger problem.
I think the best thing to look at is 8-8 in SEC the last two year's. That just isn't cutting it at a school that has won two national titles recently.
Look, if you want to look at the overall picture of a coach that has been somewhere more than 5 years, Look at Bowden at FSU. Overall picture wise he is one of the greatest coaches in college football ever. Direction progression wise, they are a middle of the road ACC team and that is why they are moving on. You think their backers are wishing they could have done this 3 years ago? Yeah, maybe?
I do think that Miles has earned another year, but he's got to get back to a place where we are over 50% in SEC play every year. This year wasn't horrible, but alot of people are worried by the MissState, Georgia and Arkansas games and realize that we could easily be a 5-6 win team this year.
I was talking about that with my brother this week and he is convinced that if Chad Jones hadn't batted that pass away at Miss State the team would have cashed it in, just like last year and we would have won 6 games at most.
Either way, you can't just look at an overall picture. You have to look at direction. Were are you headed? After the Bowl game and the change at DC last year I was extremely optimistic about this year. But now I am just nervous about next year.
Hopefully I am wrong.
Posted on 12/4/09 at 12:38 pm to extremetigerfanatic
and to all of the "enjoy the ride", "he's not elite, but good", "who else are you going to get", "look at what he did in the past", "if you're so smart why are you AD", "it doesn't matter what the fanbase thinks" BS posts, didn't we go thru this with Brady? I heard all the same crap then as well. The reality is that it does matter what the fans think and if you were at the game on Saturday you know that many fans voiced their concerns by not showing up.
Is it assinine to think that we can win a championship every year? Yeah, but if you don't demand excellence, you aren't going to get it. And I don't see Miles being up to that standard anymore. Like I said before, I hope I am wrong and he has more than earned time to get back there, but I just don't see it.
Is it assinine to think that we can win a championship every year? Yeah, but if you don't demand excellence, you aren't going to get it. And I don't see Miles being up to that standard anymore. Like I said before, I hope I am wrong and he has more than earned time to get back there, but I just don't see it.
This post was edited on 12/4/09 at 12:40 pm
Posted on 12/4/09 at 12:43 pm to extremetigerfanatic
____________
I do think that Miles has earned another year, but he's got to get back to a place where we are over 50% in SEC play every year. This year wasn't horrible, but alot of people are worried by the MissState, Georgia and Arkansas games and realize that we could easily be a 5-6 win team this year.
_____________
Weren't we over 50% in the SEC this year? If you are going to use the last 2 years as the measuring stick, why not the last 3? 4? 5?
We could also easily be 11-1. If you want to start playing the "what if" games you get on a carousel that never stops.
The problem here is that fans seem to think we are entitled to a championship every year. If you think losing to the number 1 and 2 teams in the nation is an awful year I have a feeling you would be disappointed no matter what program you cheer for.
I do think that Miles has earned another year, but he's got to get back to a place where we are over 50% in SEC play every year. This year wasn't horrible, but alot of people are worried by the MissState, Georgia and Arkansas games and realize that we could easily be a 5-6 win team this year.
_____________
Weren't we over 50% in the SEC this year? If you are going to use the last 2 years as the measuring stick, why not the last 3? 4? 5?
We could also easily be 11-1. If you want to start playing the "what if" games you get on a carousel that never stops.
The problem here is that fans seem to think we are entitled to a championship every year. If you think losing to the number 1 and 2 teams in the nation is an awful year I have a feeling you would be disappointed no matter what program you cheer for.
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