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Thought exercise: MoCa over phone line
Posted on 12/17/22 at 6:36 pm
Posted on 12/17/22 at 6:36 pm
Is rg6’s shielding what allows it to reach such high speeds over copper? Or if you were to grab something like an rg6 screw terminal adapter and run two thin wires to an rj11 adapter, could it also be thrown over the existing phone lines in a house?
This guy did a sort of similar think with UK power line adapters (stealing the data injection from the LV side and instead of passing it on to the line voltage side, running it to phone wire.
I guess in most homes there is coax where there is phone. But the question, I guess, is part of what makes MoCA special the design of the cable with the shielding, or is it just cool tech that should theoretically transfer regardless of the wire (like my 4 untwisted pair phone wire)?
This guy did a sort of similar think with UK power line adapters (stealing the data injection from the LV side and instead of passing it on to the line voltage side, running it to phone wire.
I guess in most homes there is coax where there is phone. But the question, I guess, is part of what makes MoCA special the design of the cable with the shielding, or is it just cool tech that should theoretically transfer regardless of the wire (like my 4 untwisted pair phone wire)?
2
Posted on 12/18/22 at 7:53 am to Hopeful Doc
I think you can just terminate phone lines to an ethernet connector. The issue is if the lines have been daisy chained/spliced. You will get a really poor (or no) signal if that's the case.
MOCA is a good thing (I use it to connect my office and network drop.) I considered using the phone lines, but took one look at how sloppy the installer did and decided against that.
MOCA is a good thing (I use it to connect my office and network drop.) I considered using the phone lines, but took one look at how sloppy the installer did and decided against that.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 11:09 am to Hopeful Doc
quote:
Is rg6’s shielding what allows it to reach such high speeds over copper?
It isn't really so much about speed but distance. You can put a lot of data through a twisted pair like a phone line but only for a short distance. The further you go, the lower the speed limit becomes.
The shielding allows coax to run further distances with less signal quality degradation.
You might be able to send MOCA down twisted pair but since it isn't using frequencies designed for unshielded twisted pair you probably will be very limited on speed and distance.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 5:38 pm to Ricardo
quote:
The issue is if the lines have been daisy chained/spliced. You will get a really poor (or no) signal if that's the case.
This is my scenario. I had considered just this to test and see, but there are too many hops. Thus my curiosity about this scenario (three relatively inaccessible spots)
quote:
MOCA is a good thing (I use it to connect my office and network drop.) I considered using the phone lines, but took one look at how sloppy the installer did and decided against that.
I don’t think mine was done sloppily. And it’s done pretty point A—>B—>C with no wasted space. I would think the way MoCa and power line work would be OK with Daisy chaining but was curious if someone knew of an obvious “kicker”
I may try this for fun when the coax connectors come back in stock and report back if I get around to it.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 6:47 pm to Hopeful Doc
I don't expect MoCA to work over a telephone line. Those old telephone lines were Cat 3. Cat 3 has a maximum frequency of 16 MHz. MoCA operates from 500 MHz to 1675 MHz. I expect the signal degradation over a short distance if it works at all. And be careful the wire doesn't overheat.
The coax shielding is there to prevent electromagnetic interference. In a twisted pair, the signal is sent down one wire and the inverse signal is sent down the other wire. EMI affects both wires equally so the net voltage is unchanged. Using that adapter you won't have the inverse signal, thus no EMI protection on the twisted pair.
The coax shielding is there to prevent electromagnetic interference. In a twisted pair, the signal is sent down one wire and the inverse signal is sent down the other wire. EMI affects both wires equally so the net voltage is unchanged. Using that adapter you won't have the inverse signal, thus no EMI protection on the twisted pair.
Posted on 12/24/22 at 12:30 pm to TAMU-93
One issue will be the impedance mismatch. Even with a balun there will be a huge signal loss over distance, a massive amount of crosstalk, and you would pickup a shite ton of EMI especially if that run of phone wire hits the correct length to resonate at any particular RF frequency. If those phone cables are spliced into at different points it’s possible you will have several different lengths of wire, from an electrical standpoint, allowing it to be resonate at multiple different frequencies. Theoretically it could possibly radiate more of the signal than it carry’s to the other end of the run.
It’s incredibly inefficient to jump from 75ohms to 600 or more ohms then back to 75 ohms. It’s like throwing a big resister in your circuit.
But with all things RF, you could get lucky and have the perfect storm for it to work 100% how you want, or for it to go to shite when the neighbors turn on the Christmas lights, flat screen, solar charger, etc.
At least make sure you disconnect the line coming from the phone company. It will still be hot w/o dial tone.
It’s incredibly inefficient to jump from 75ohms to 600 or more ohms then back to 75 ohms. It’s like throwing a big resister in your circuit.
But with all things RF, you could get lucky and have the perfect storm for it to work 100% how you want, or for it to go to shite when the neighbors turn on the Christmas lights, flat screen, solar charger, etc.
At least make sure you disconnect the line coming from the phone company. It will still be hot w/o dial tone.
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