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Surge Protector/ Power Strip for Home office recommendations?

Posted on 5/6/19 at 10:36 am
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
20481 posts
Posted on 5/6/19 at 10:36 am
I'd read conflicting ideas that surge protectors are mostly a gimmick as any lightning strike is likely to be too powerful for even the better ones to protect? Is it worth it to buy a higher joule protector? Or just get a cheap one that has like a 200 or 400 Joule rating?

Any recommendations for a fairly basic Home office surge protector power strip?
Posted by NYCAuburn
TD Platinum Membership/SECr Sheriff
Member since Feb 2011
57002 posts
Posted on 5/6/19 at 10:44 am to
quote:

a gimmick as any lightning strike is likely to be too powerful for even the better ones to protect?


A direct hit is going to fry your shite no matter what. But lightning strikes, while the most common, are not the only types of power surge. I just handled a claim last week where a cable tech down the street caused a surge on an entire block. However only a TV and washing machine suffered any damage on this particular claim/home.

I'd only spend some money a better unit if something important needing better protection
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
20481 posts
Posted on 5/6/19 at 11:13 am to
So how many Joules is a good bet for something like this?
Posted by Marco Esquandolas
Member since Jul 2013
11427 posts
Posted on 5/6/19 at 5:13 pm to
Take a look at Furman...numerous models in 15A and 20A and pro and consumer models...they have been cleaning power for 40 years.
Posted by Ham And Glass
Member since Nov 2016
1518 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 2:09 pm to
Not basic but not too complicated: a distributed approach is best when it comes to surge protection of electronics. A good quality power strip at one end + a basic, outside the panel surge protective device at the incoming electrical panel ( a contractor installs a MOV based panel right next to your power panel that diverts surge, transients, etc) Both can be done for about $1200.
Posted by westom
Member since May 2015
32 posts
Posted on 5/8/19 at 8:48 am to
You are asking right questions by asking for numbers. Many who recommend have no idea what these numbers are.

Surges (lightning is only one example) mean protection must somehow harmlessly dissipate hundreds of thousands of joules. Facilities that cannot have damage, even over 100 years ago, routinely did that using a well proven technology originally demonstrated by Franklin over 250 years ago.

A plug-in protector must either 'block' or 'absorb' that surge. How does its 2 cm protector part block what three miles of sky cannot? Obviously it cannot.

How do hundreds or thousand joules inside a tiny protector 'absorb' hundreds of thousands of joules? This can happen: LINK

Your telco CO will suffer about 100 surges with each storm. How often is your town without phone service for four days after every storm while they replace that switching computer? Never? Exactly. Because direct lightning strikes without damage is that routine for as long as telephones have existed.

A typical home may see one potentially destructive surge every seven years. That informed homwowner spends about $1 per protected appliance to protect from all surges including lightning. By using products from other companies known for integrity. By using products that make a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to single point earth ground. Where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate? Earth ground. Just like Franklin demonstrated over 250 years ago.

That says what has always worked and what most consumers do not know due to education from advertising, wild speculation, hearsay, and subjective reasoning (no numbers).

Lightning is typically 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector (for about $1 per appliance) is 50,000 amps. Because protectors must connect even direct lightning strikes to earth - and not fail.

Code requires TV cable, telephone, etc to all have effective protection. Every wire inside every incoming cable must make that low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection to earth. AC electric is not required to have that protection.

Go to any big box hardware store or electrical supply house. Ask for their 'whole house' protector. Technology is so old as to sell as a commodity. Verify it is at least 50,000 amps.

This is installed on breaker box or meter pan. Or even rented from the AC electric company. That is the protector. But it only does something useful when connected low impedance (ie hardwire does not go up over a foundation and down to electrodes) to what needs most of your attention - single point earth ground.

That summarizes what works, what is also less expensive, what must be learned, and what is necessary. If any one appliance needs protection, then every household appliance (dishwasher, clocks, refrigerator, dimmer switches, garage door opener, central air, GFCIs, and smoke detectors) needs that protection.

Plenty more question should result. Only introduced is a simpler and reliable solution that means direct lightning strikes without damage even to a protector. So that protection remains functional for many decades.

Effective protection always answers this question. Where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate? A protector is only as effective as the item that does the protection - single point earth ground.

Wall receptacle safety ground is not earth ground. No plug-in protector has an earth ground connection; is ineffective protection. It can even compromise what is better protection already inside appliances. Read spec numbers from a UPS. Even less protection.
This post was edited on 5/8/19 at 8:49 am
Posted by notsince98
KC, MO
Member since Oct 2012
18005 posts
Posted on 5/8/19 at 9:08 am to
just install a quality one in your electrical panel to cover your whole house and be done with it.
Posted by Marco Esquandolas
Member since Jul 2013
11427 posts
Posted on 5/8/19 at 10:23 pm to
quote:

Many who recommend have no idea what these numbers are.



...and some do.

Posted by westom
Member since May 2015
32 posts
Posted on 5/9/19 at 6:45 am to
What number defines quality? Clearly not price.
Posted by notsince98
KC, MO
Member since Oct 2012
18005 posts
Posted on 5/9/19 at 7:21 am to
quote:

What number defines quality? Clearly not price.


What defines quality? A UL listing or other NRTL listing. Specifically UL 489 & UL 1449.

IEEE C62 indicates that for most, the largest surge that can enter your service is 10kA. Going above this rating won't necessarily give you better protection.

SPDs degrade with every hit they take. So a 10kA SPD will wear out faster than a 100kA device. As long as you can find a 10kA device with status lights that alert you to when protection has degraded, I would just go that route and replace as necessary. One thing you can do to help a basic 10kA SPD last longer is install 2 of them to split the loads.

Lookup your electric panel information. Your panel manufacturer should offer a basic 2-pole (for 240V, single phase services) 10kA SPD device that mounts in 2 breaker slots for a reasonable price ($60-$100). It would be a very quick and easy install and now every power wire in your house is protected from a service side surge. Some manufacturers will offer ratings of 36kA or more for not much more $.

Ideally you can find one with an MCOV rating of 320+V Line-Line rating. Definitely stay at or above 300V L-L.
This post was edited on 5/9/19 at 7:25 am
Posted by westom
Member since May 2015
32 posts
Posted on 5/9/19 at 5:09 pm to
UL 1449 and UL 489 says nothing about quality. A protector can do no hardware protection and still have those numbers. UL is only about protecting human life. UL says nothing about the quality of hardware.

This protector was also UL 1449 listed. Why is this called quality? LINK

This one was also UL 1449 listed. Where is quality defined? LINK

IEEE C.62 defines a test waveform. How does a test waveform define quality? It can conduct that test waveform ... to what? If that current does not travel on a low impedance path to earth ground, then a C.62 waveform can pass directly or destructively into anything else.

A typically destructive surge can be 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps. A 10kA protector is undersized. But again, only numbers for one item in a system are posted. That says nothing about the entire system. Quality is only defined at a system level. Protector is only one component of that system.

Another critical number that defines quality is length of that hardwire. Too long means excessive impedance - no effective protection. Inferior quality.

An IEEE brochure clearly demonstrates this. A UL 1449 protector in one room did exactly what it is expected to do. It earthed a surge destructively through a best connection to earth. It connected that current 8000 volts destructively through a TV in the adjacent room. That is quality?

Quality starts with an answer to this question. Where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate? How many joules does that UL 1449 protector 'absorb'? Hundreds? Near zero. Why is something that grossly undersized called quality? Advertising myths, lies, wild speculation and subjective reasoning are alive and well. Specification numbers were not posted.

Threshold voltage (330 volts) says nothing about quality. Especially since destructive transients are measured in currents. Voltage only increases when something foolishly tries to 'block' or 'absorb' that current. Somehow the tiny hundreds joule protector part in a UL 1449 power strip will somehow 'block' or 'absorb' that current? Of course not.

That let-through voltage (ie 330 volts) also says voltage will rise to about 900 volts when that protector fails. Effective (quality) protectors do not fail, do not create 1000 volts from a surge current, and remain functional even after many decades and many direct lightning strikes. That quality solution also costs about $1 per protected appliance.

Since it does not threaten human life, it also has a UL listing.
Posted by notsince98
KC, MO
Member since Oct 2012
18005 posts
Posted on 5/9/19 at 5:34 pm to
Nothing that you linked is a panel mounted SPD. SPDs can only protect surges coming from the service side. Surges coming from the inside of a home cannot be prevented by any SPD and likely can't protect anything due to small wiring in branch circuits. And those pictures you provided are not from surges created outside the house. Those are not relevant. Not to mention you didn't provide any evidence those devices didn't protect what was down stream of them. SPDs are sacrificial in nature and those were definitely sacrificed.

UL isn't just about life safety. UL testing requires proving a product does what it says it does under the required environments. I suggest looking into exactly what UL testing is as I don't think you have much experience with it.

IEEE C62 defines the wave that SPDs should be designed to protect against based on their categories/locations. The wave form is selected to represent the worst case for most applications.

I can tell by your repetitive use of joules you are not from an electrical background. Joules isn't the issue for designing SPDs. Current and voltage levels are. Yes, energy can be converted to joules but you don't design electrical equipment around that unit.

Quality SPDs will hold a UL listing indicating they can dissipate the kA and MCOV levels they indicate on their labeling.

But hey, I'm just a PE that designs electrical distribution for utilities down to large manufacturing facilities where surge protection is critical.
This post was edited on 5/9/19 at 5:36 pm
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
20481 posts
Posted on 5/9/19 at 5:59 pm to
So kinda like I figured they are a waste of money basically. You can’t protect against them with any sort of reasonable financial investment so the best answer seems to be to insure yourself properly.
Posted by deeprig9
Unincorporated Ozora, Georgia
Member since Sep 2012
64051 posts
Posted on 5/9/19 at 7:59 pm to
For a basic home office I recommend an APC floor unit, and for extra protection, plug a "surge protector" power strip into that, before plugging in your peripherals.

Or you can turn your house into a Tier-III data center.
Posted by NYCAuburn
TD Platinum Membership/SECr Sheriff
Member since Feb 2011
57002 posts
Posted on 5/9/19 at 9:00 pm to
quote:

best answer seems to be to insure yourself properly.


Pretty much all home owners insurance protects against it. I’d say about a third of the insurance claims my company handles are surge related. I have seen whole home units fried. I have seen $2k surge protector/conditions zapped. I obviously don’t see the units that don’t have issues But still protect yourself against the random surges that do happen on your higher end devices. You still have your deductible to deal with in a loss.
Posted by westom
Member since May 2015
32 posts
Posted on 5/9/19 at 9:13 pm to
quote:

Surges coming from the inside of a home cannot be prevented by any SPD and likely can't protect anything due to small wiring in branch circuits.

So much is wrong with that statement that I hardly know where to begin.

If surges exist inside a house, then GFCIs, furnace controls, dishwasher electronics, dimmer switches, LED & CFL bulbs, and smoke detectors are replaced daily. How many have you replaced this week or this decade? That tiny number says no surges are created inside. At most, only noise. That myth is invented / encouraged by ineffective protector manufacturers to scam naive consumers.

How often is your central air and garage door opener creating well over 330 volt spikes on 120 volt circuits? First, if they are, then nearest electronics are first destroyed. IOW that central air or garage door opener is first damaged. Then other appliances damaged by a surge that occurs daily.

If that spike exists, then tiny joules inside protectors are first to fail. How many protectors were damaged this week by daily generated spikes?

And finally, if those spikes exist, then one 'whole house' protector eliminates them. To make a myth work, they need you to wish a protector only works when between a surge source and appliance. Protectors that work that way (that magically 'block' or 'absorb' a surge) are tiny joules - ineffective - fail on a first surge to increase sales and profits.

A sacrificial SPD violates what protector part manufacturers state must not happen. Catastrophic failure is a reason for protector fires. Absolute Maximum Parameters define numbers for unacceptable operation - catastrophic failure. Any protector that fails catastrophically was doing no appliance protection. And is also a threat to human life.

That plug-in protector probably has a "Protector Good" light. That light can never report the acceptable failure mode - degradation. It only reports an unacceptable failure - catastrophic. IOW that light says a protector was so undersized that emergency protection circuits (ie one amp thermal fuse) were activated to protect human life.

Why does a failed protector still power appliances? Because its protector parts were disconnected as fast as possible to avert fire. And that same surge remained connected to attached appliances. That same surge (that destroyed a tiny joule protector) was too tiny to overwhelm better protection inside the appliance. The appliance was never disconnected from that surge - that was too tiny to damage the appliance.

UL is only about protecting human life. UL 1449 only tests a protector enough to demonstrate it has protector circuits. That protector can completely fail on those tiny C.62 test transients - and still be UL approved. They don't care that it is grossly undersized - poor quality. They only care that it does not spit sparks and fire if / when it fails.

Joules define every plug-in SPD design. Read MOV datasheets before making accusations. And read specification for that protector. What spec number always appears in the category that is called Surge Protection? Joules. When a protector part has more joules, then more current is necessary to exceed its joule number - cause catastrophic failure. Apparently you did not design these things. Did not read datasheets. And did not routinely trace surge damage to discover what human mistake permitted a surge current inside.

Not surge voltage. Surges are a current source - not a voltage source. Electrical engineers know why that difference is so significant.

One who does surge protection spend most time discussing the number one critical item in all protection systems. Some protection systems do not even have protectors. But every one features this: single point earth ground.

Case studies from peers who do this stuff. In this case a Nebraska radio station suffered repeated damage. Then electrical engineers, who never understood this stuff, even disconnected earth grounds assuming that was causing repeat damage.

What did the professionals do to avert all future damage? They installed no protectors. They upgraded the item that defines all protection - earth ground: LINK

Orange County FL suffered repeat damage to 911 Emergency response equipment. They finally brought in informed professionals. Again, no protectors were installed. They fixed the reason for repeat damage at many locations. They fixed improperly installed, defective, or undersized earth grounds: LINK

Another professional describes why they do not suffer surge damage:
quote:

Well I assert, from personal and broadcast experience spanning 30 years, that you can design a system that will handle *direct lightning strikes* on a routine basis. It takes some planning and careful layout, but it's not hard, nor is it overly expensive. At WXIA-TV, my other job, we take direct lightning strikes nearly every time there's a thunderstorm. Our downtime from such strikes is almost non-existant. The last time we went down from a strike, it was due to a strike on the power company's lines knocking *them* out, ...

Since my disasterous strike, I've been campaigning vigorously to educate amateurs that you *can* avoid damage from direct strikes. The belief that there's no protection from direct strike damage is *myth*. ...

The keys to effective lightning protection are surprisingly simple, and surprisingly less than obvious. Of course you *must* have a single point ground system that eliminates all ground loops. And you must present a low *impedance* path for the energy to go. That's most generally a low *inductance* path rather than just a low ohm DC path.


And yes, we often went into facilities after damage happened to demonstrate and correct human mistakes (ie plug-in protectors) that did no protection or even made damage easier.

In one classic case, plug-in protectors earthed a surge destructively through an entire network of powered off computers. We literally replaced every damaged semiconductor to trace that surge path and to fully restore all computers. But then we had to submit our analysis and conclusions also to design reviews.

Even the popular internally generated surge is a myth as demonstrated by so many reasons why - only some already posted.

Plug-in protectors should never be used if a 'whole house' solution does not exist and connected to single point earth ground. Then the 'whole house' protector does (according to the IEEE) 99.5% to 99.9% of the protection. And a plug-in protector can do an additional 0.2%. Yes, a plug-in protector can do some protection ... only if a properly earthed 'whole house' solution exists.

UL is only about protecting humans. UL is never about performance of hardware. It only defined what is necessary to protect humans. Plug-in protectors that have near zero protection (near zero joules) can have a UL listing as long as its failure does not threaten human life - ie create fires during testing.

Since a surge, too tiny to damage appliances, also destroys that tiny joule protector, then the "sacrificial protector" myth lives on. Effective protectors (if properly earthed) do not fail for many decades even after many direct lightning strikes. Also also protect from a mythical, internally generated surge.

A 200 or 400 joule protector means a protector can fail on surges too tiny to damage any appliances. As long as that joule number is above zero. then advertising can hype it as 100% protection. Lying subjectively is legal.
This post was edited on 5/9/19 at 9:24 pm
Posted by notsince98
KC, MO
Member since Oct 2012
18005 posts
Posted on 5/10/19 at 7:08 am to
quote:

Surges are a current source - not a voltage source. Electrical engineers know why that difference is so significant.


As an electrical engineer with a PE in multiple states, this statement right here shows how much you are missing on this subject. Surges can be both current and voltage sourced and you must protect against both options.

For example, SPDs were previously named TVSS by the National Electric code. TVSS stands for transient "voltage" suppression system. This is because the whole basis of how MOVs operate. MOVs are operated based on voltages. They don't just see current. They can't. They are not inline devices.

SPDs are designed to protect against both voltage spikes and current surges.

So please, before you do anymore attempts at trying to convince people you understand proper surge protection, do some basic research. The misinformation can be dangerous.

Thanks.
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
20481 posts
Posted on 5/10/19 at 7:35 am to
Holy walls of texts guys. Ain’t nobody got time to read all of that.

I’m not really worried about the financial losses, it’s more the data on the laptops and hardrives.
Posted by westom
Member since May 2015
32 posts
Posted on 5/10/19 at 8:34 am to
If that data is saved, then only serious threats are from hardware damage from a transient or the more common threat - failure from a manufacturing defect.

Informed consumers waste no money on profit center protectors with near zero protection (joule) numbers. Informed consumers spend tens of times less money to properly earth a 'whole house' protector. And focus most attention on the critical item - connections to and quality of single point earth ground.

Since potentially destructive surges are 20,000 amps, then a minimal 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps. Because effective protectors (that cost tens of times less money) do not fail over many decades after many direct lightning strikes.

That is protector life expectancy over many surges. Protector effectiveness during each surge is defined by the low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to earth ground and the quality of that earthing electrode.

That (and not myths hyped by irrelevant PE papers) is how protection has been done even in every facility that cannot have damage even 100 years ago. Informed professionals (demonstrates by three examples) always recommend that and not advertising myths.

If a laptop needs protection, then so does everything else inside the building. Only a 'whole house' solution, from other companies so well know for integrity, provides best protection. 99.5% protection (nothing is perfect because humans make mistakes). For decades, to avert fires created by protector, so that nobody knows a surge existed, and for tens of times less money.

Reasons why only posted by those who were doing this stuff probably long before he was even born.

The effective solution always answers this question. Where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.
Posted by deeprig9
Unincorporated Ozora, Georgia
Member since Sep 2012
64051 posts
Posted on 5/10/19 at 4:59 pm to
I worked out of a home office for a while, and took two direct lightning strikes.

It blew alot of shite up.

It was a 1940's house that wasn't exactly up to electrical code.

The only thing office-related that got fried was a modem.

It was the only thing not plugged into the surge protector power strip.

I eventually went to the APC "brick" that provides surge protection as well as battery backup power. The second lightning strike did nothing to anything office-related.

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