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Message
re: Permanently installed LED "Christmas" lights.
Posted on 11/29/22 at 6:54 am to Hopeful Doc
Posted on 11/29/22 at 6:54 am to Hopeful Doc
quote:
TL;DR can WLED or any other common , user-friendly systems have power and data from separate sources, or do you need the light’s power to run through the controller for reasons other than powering the controller?
I'm not 100% certain, but I think they need a common ground between the controller and the LED's.
I think this question would be better suited to the WLED Discord
This post was edited on 11/29/22 at 6:57 am
1
Posted on 11/29/22 at 10:44 am to Lonnie Utah
quote:well power injection is very very common....So i would say yes. the power does not need to run through the WLED controller.
TL;DR can WLED or any other common , user-friendly systems have power and data from separate sources, or do you need the light’s power to run through the controller for reasons other than powering the controller?
I'm not 100% certain, but I think they need a common ground between the controller and the LED's.
I think this question would be better suited to the WLED Discord
Posted on 11/29/22 at 11:23 am to CarRamrod
quote:
well power injection is very very common....So i would say yes. the power does not need to run through the WLED controller.
When I was designing my 5v system, I was considering putting two power supplies on opposite sides of my house with the thought of eliminating voltage drop across the system (even with power injection along the way.) I did some calculations before I started and using 18 gauge wire to feed the 110' of LED's in my system, I got significant voltage drop across the wire itself. My solution ended up being to run power to roughly the center of my setup and have the power injection start there. I also fed power from both ends of the LEDs and work back towards the middle. It took a few more holes in the soffit, but ultimately it was a good solution. (as opposed to mounting a second power supply to the outside of my house vs inside my garage.)
The point of that was, I did a lot of research before hand as to how to connect two power supplies to a run of LEDs. What everything said, is that it was possible, if you connect the grounds. But it said nothing of the data channels.
As for the poster that started this thread of discussion, I'd try a couple of things in addition to previous suggestions. One, post a link to the LED's your interested in. I've not heard of 48v addressable LED's before. Second, try to locate the data sheet for the LED's in question. The data sheet likely has the minimum data voltage required. That should answer the question.
But I'll add one more thing. While 48v isn't a ton, I'd be a little leery of building a 48v system and putting it on my house without a really good fusing system. With the strips being out in the elements, the system does have the chance to deteriorate over time. It's not been mentioned much on here, but the possibility of fire hazard due to shorting across any LED system is a real one. I don't really worry too much at 5v and would only worry a little bit more a 12v. But as you go above that, I'd worry alot more about something attached to my house. I'm not sure the minor 1 time aggravation of doing power injection would cause me to jump all the way to 48v. But that's just me being overly paranoid.
With that being said, After doing a remodel and installing a bunch of white 12v LEDs all over the house, if I were doing my outside project again, I'd use 12v strips over 5v strips because of the voltage drop issue(s).
Good luck.
This post was edited on 11/29/22 at 11:30 am
Posted on 11/29/22 at 11:53 am to Lonnie Utah
Here is an AliExpress link which is poorly documented but shows what I am talking about. There are a handful of manufacturers. I’m not exactly asking for others to do my homework for me as asking, “hey, this seems off/wrong/like no one else does it or has documented it, has anyone else heard of it !?”
There is a diagram that does look like it separates power from the supply and only takes data from the controller. The controller is, in this example, connected to the same supply, but no “power out” from the controller is used.
This I’ve been trying to do and can’t seem to do it. I enjoy when I find a US product and trace it back to the Chinese manufacturer and see who all makes the same product and then feel good about buying any of them. This is the opposite. I found something I’ve never heard of from China, no documentation, and no one here selling them. “48v” returns NO results on the WLED subreddit. I’ve been reading the discord link (thanks) with a few leads but it seems like it is either new, incorrectly documented, or I’m an idiot (or some combination of the three, but no one here or there having an obvious “use this, dumbass” is pretty reassuring)
There are some good videos on this, but none of them address power injection WITHOUT the controller being involved. I’m either not as brave or not as smart as Ramrod based on his conclusion that it will work, and I get pretty cautious with this stuff
I’m not QUITE ready to pull the trigger, but the concept was intriguing Enough to start looking. I have 48v wires running all through my attic (PoE for cameras and access points). I’m still in the early planning phase, but 48v at the wattages described aren’t a huge concern to me (then again, I’d want to read some comments on the heat as they’re probably 5 or 12v lights with resistors which would/could generate a ton of heat)
I’m not anti-power injection. But the thought of a new product with some different/fewer drawbacks intrigued me. This seemed like the crowd to already know about it.
There is a diagram that does look like it separates power from the supply and only takes data from the controller. The controller is, in this example, connected to the same supply, but no “power out” from the controller is used.
quote:
Second, try to locate the data sheet for the LED's in question
This I’ve been trying to do and can’t seem to do it. I enjoy when I find a US product and trace it back to the Chinese manufacturer and see who all makes the same product and then feel good about buying any of them. This is the opposite. I found something I’ve never heard of from China, no documentation, and no one here selling them. “48v” returns NO results on the WLED subreddit. I’ve been reading the discord link (thanks) with a few leads but it seems like it is either new, incorrectly documented, or I’m an idiot (or some combination of the three, but no one here or there having an obvious “use this, dumbass” is pretty reassuring)
quote:
two power supplies on opposite sides of my house
There are some good videos on this, but none of them address power injection WITHOUT the controller being involved. I’m either not as brave or not as smart as Ramrod based on his conclusion that it will work, and I get pretty cautious with this stuff
quote:
While 48v isn't a ton, I'd be a little leery of building a 48v system
I’m not QUITE ready to pull the trigger, but the concept was intriguing Enough to start looking. I have 48v wires running all through my attic (PoE for cameras and access points). I’m still in the early planning phase, but 48v at the wattages described aren’t a huge concern to me (then again, I’d want to read some comments on the heat as they’re probably 5 or 12v lights with resistors which would/could generate a ton of heat)
I’m not anti-power injection. But the thought of a new product with some different/fewer drawbacks intrigued me. This seemed like the crowd to already know about it.
This post was edited on 11/29/22 at 12:26 pm
Posted on 11/29/22 at 12:52 pm to Hopeful Doc
Looking at it, they seem to be a pretty simple solution. They show a sperate controller and power supply. So Heck, order a small run of them and see if you can make it work.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Posted on 11/29/22 at 1:34 pm to Hopeful Doc
the image i see shows the controller is AC power.
the data signal is its own thing, completely separate from the power. From what i remember when i was researching last year is your controller tells pixel 0 the code and it boosts the data to the next pixel. hence why you dont need to power inject the data. There was an instance of longer data runs between controller and pixel 0 or a long run between strands. I dont remember the details.
the data signal is its own thing, completely separate from the power. From what i remember when i was researching last year is your controller tells pixel 0 the code and it boosts the data to the next pixel. hence why you dont need to power inject the data. There was an instance of longer data runs between controller and pixel 0 or a long run between strands. I dont remember the details.
Posted on 11/30/22 at 8:03 am to CarRamrod
quote:
well power injection is very very common....So i would say yes. the power does not need to run through the WLED controller.
And the controller is to be operating likely at 5V or 3.3V regardless of power supply. Don't feed 48V directly to the controller...
Connect the data ground to the power supply ground directly before pixel 0.
I have this set up in my christmas display. Controller and power supply 1 on north side of house with ~half of LEDs, and data output 2 and ground run to south side of the house with power supply 2 providing power to the lights on that side. The data ground is tied to PS2 ground at pixel 0 of south display.
Posted on 11/30/22 at 9:39 am to guedeaux
quote:
And the controller is to be operating likely at 5V or 3.3V regardless of power supply.
I'd be willing to bet you're 100% right on this. Why did I/we think of that before.
(Edit: The output voltage of the controller could easily checked with a multi-meter) quote:
I have this set up in my christmas display. Controller and power supply 1 on north side of house with ~half of LEDs, and data output 2 and ground run to south side of the house with power supply 2 providing power to the lights on that side. The data ground is tied to PS2 ground at pixel 0 of south display.
I wasn't completely clear what you were saying here. Sounds like you have 1 controller with 2 outputs and 2 power supplies? Did I read it correctly?
This post was edited on 11/30/22 at 10:38 am
Posted on 11/30/22 at 10:59 am to Lonnie Utah
quote:
I wasn't completely clear what you were saying here. Sounds like you have 1 controller with 2 outputs and 2 power supplies? Did I read it correctly?
That is correct. (The controller has 4 outputs but for simplicity I just mentioned 2 in the example.)
ETA:
This post was edited on 11/30/22 at 11:25 am
Posted on 11/30/22 at 4:14 pm to guedeaux
You running a Dig-Quad?
Posted on 11/30/22 at 4:39 pm to Lonnie Utah
Yes sir.
Posted on 12/15/22 at 9:41 am to Korkstand
To the “path light” crowd followers:
A detailed-enough Link to a Reddit post where a guy found cheap ($40/dozen) Solar path lights that were easy to disassemble and wire + 5v “ring” RGB that he put inside them.
Not that the PVC method isn’t great, but I think there was a comment that it did not look great during the daytime. And then this ring may even be a solution in that scenario (I think the deflection or mounting was also a concern at one point).
This has been an idea of mine for a little while now - find an attractive light/fixture and repurpose it so that the “daytime appearance” and waterproofing aspects are mostly taken care of.
I have some old LED path lights that were my father in law’s cast-offs that will get this upgrade (though I’ll have to figure out the wiring solution and want to find/wait til I find a 12v solution so I don’t have to mess with an additional transformer or a step-down loop of 5v off a 12v transformer as I have enough 12v uplighting that I’m happy with)
A detailed-enough Link to a Reddit post where a guy found cheap ($40/dozen) Solar path lights that were easy to disassemble and wire + 5v “ring” RGB that he put inside them.
Not that the PVC method isn’t great, but I think there was a comment that it did not look great during the daytime. And then this ring may even be a solution in that scenario (I think the deflection or mounting was also a concern at one point).
This has been an idea of mine for a little while now - find an attractive light/fixture and repurpose it so that the “daytime appearance” and waterproofing aspects are mostly taken care of.
I have some old LED path lights that were my father in law’s cast-offs that will get this upgrade (though I’ll have to figure out the wiring solution and want to find/wait til I find a 12v solution so I don’t have to mess with an additional transformer or a step-down loop of 5v off a 12v transformer as I have enough 12v uplighting that I’m happy with)
Posted on 12/16/22 at 10:51 am to Hopeful Doc
quote:
I have some old LED path lights that were my father in law’s cast-offs that will get this upgrade (though I’ll have to figure out the wiring solution and want to find/wait til I find a 12v solution
RGB 12V COB rings
I am very interested in this project. The only problems with the one I posted are that they aren't rgbw and I'm not sure about controlling each path light independently...
This post was edited on 12/16/22 at 10:53 am
Posted on 11/21/23 at 10:29 am to Lonnie Utah
So is the best mounting option still going with the j-channel and drilling a hole for each individual light?
I'm trying to decide between the string and strip lights.
I'm trying to decide between the string and strip lights.
Posted on 11/21/23 at 11:13 am to ApisMellifera
quote:
So is the best mounting option still going with the j-channel and drilling a hole for each individual light?
Depends on the house. I'd watch this video.
Best Permanent Install Exterior LED Kit? Govee, Govee Pro, Eufy, Appeck, YPS, Novostella
If I had to do it over, I might do Node LED's...
Posted on 11/21/23 at 11:48 am to Lonnie Utah
quote:
If I had to do it over, I might do Node LED's...
Node as in the type in the video you linked? Why is that? Ease of installation?
Between the strip and string lights, I like the look of the string lights better, but installation seems like more of a pain since I would have to drill each hole in the j-channel.
With the strip lights, I could easily just buy clips and screw them into my soffit. On my house, my eaves drop down about an inch lower than my soffit so they would be hidden from sight and most water/sunlight should be blocked.
Posted on 11/21/23 at 11:48 am to Lonnie Utah
I can't find "Node" as a brand; is there a link to that or is that an install methodology?
Posted on 11/21/23 at 12:58 pm to ApisMellifera
quote:on second thought i'm not sure i can do this at all. we will have 'weird' angles on our new house. they would have to point outward, not down. there's just not enough of a surface for undermount.
With the strip lights, I could easily just buy clips and screw them into my soffit. On my house, my eaves drop down about an inch lower than my soffit so they would be hidden from sight and most water/sunlight should be blocked.
Posted on 11/22/23 at 8:56 am to CAD703X
quote:
they would have to point outward, not down.
That's how mine are done. This is what I used to install them.
Aluminum Profile for LED Strip Light Installations
From the looks of it, the trickiest part will be bridging the angles. You could just finesse the strips around the angels your you could make a wire junction and bridge it. Both have advantages and disadvantages.
This post was edited on 11/22/23 at 8:58 am
Posted on 11/22/23 at 9:06 am to CAD703X
quote:
I can't find "Node" as a brand; is there a link to that or is that an install methodology?
Node refers to the LED type. A Node is a bunch of LED's together in a "puck" connected by the power and data wires. There are many brands. Just search google or amazon for Permanent Outdoor LED Lights.
Compared to my install these would have been much easier. But I have a 25+ tall peak over my garage and installing and soldering light strips at that height wasn't fun. Esp for someone who's not comfortable with heights...
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