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re: General security camera discussion (was "Unifi Protect security cameras")

Posted on 12/23/21 at 5:39 am to
Posted by s14suspense
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2007
14692 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 5:39 am to
quote:

As for the surveillance obsession, I'm trying to build a business out of it so I kind of have to be obsessed. Not sure if those of you who pop into this thread are quite this interested, but in case you are I'll update once I've started my open source Protect clone that will work with any ONVIF cam.



I pop in because I'm a Unifi fan and because I'd rather someone else troubleshoot all these security cameras. I've never felt the need for security cameras around the house where I live but I'm sure that will change one day.
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
14962 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 11:17 pm to
quote:

I'll update once I've started my open source Protect clone that will work with any ONVIF cam.



If it’s twice as reliable as Protect, I may even buy it!
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28707 posts
Posted on 12/23/21 at 11:54 pm to
quote:

If it’s twice as reliable as Protect, I may even buy it!


If the code I've written in the past is any indication, the first feature will work really well, and then the confidence from that will cause me to add subsequent features too quickly and the rest of it will be half-baked. This will be my first open source project, though, so I will try to take on more of a management role and let real programmers do the hard stuff.
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28707 posts
Posted on 12/26/21 at 8:54 pm to
I'm on the beta channel on everything (nvr, protect, and mobile app) so I'm not sure if this has made it to the stable releases yet, but they have finally added thumbnails to the mobile notifications.



As for that 5th mouse, after catching him on cam numerous times over a few days, he finally went inside the trap and got caught on christmas eve. Not a creature was stirring for the rest of that night, and 48 hours later the camera hasn't caught any action whatsoever. Fingers crossed that they're all gone.
Posted by Lonnie Utah
Utah!
Member since Jul 2012
23921 posts
Posted on 12/28/21 at 5:07 pm to
Any reolink fans have success connecting one of their wireless cams to one of their NVR's? Their website says its possible with some cams and nvrs, but real world experience would be nice.
Posted by BabySam
FL
Member since Oct 2010
1504 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 5:35 pm to
Just installed/configured the G4 PTZ for my buddy at his farm. This thing is fricking amazing, which i would expect with the $1800 pricetag. Like Kork has said, the ubiquiti camera quality is incredible but you do pay a price for that.
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
14962 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 5:54 pm to
quote:

G4 PTZ for my buddy at his farm.



I’m fairly certain if you get the angle right, you can watch the sperm enter the egg with that thing.



I really wanted to use 1-2 of these at home, but I thought they would look pretty bad on my house, and I thought I may be able to get a license plate reading with my g4p (at the distance from my house to the road, I can make out formatting and intermittently get letters, but no such luck at actually pulling numbers off plates)
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28707 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 7:14 pm to
quote:

I thought I may be able to get a license plate reading with my g4p (at the distance from my house to the road, I can make out formatting and intermittently get letters, but no such luck at actually pulling numbers off plates)
To read plates, you need in the neighborhood of 40-50 pixels per foot or more. So with a 4K camera, the scene can be no wider than 3840/40 = 96 feet at the distance you are trying to capture. The G4Pro has 3x zoom, so of course this distance will vary depending on the set zoom.

At 1X zoom the horizontal FoV is 110 degrees, so the scene is 96 feet wide at a distance of 33 feet. Any further than that and you will have trouble making out plates. If the lighting and angles aren't perfect, it will have to be even closer.

At 3X zoom the horizontal FoV is 35 degrees, so the scene is 96 feet wide at a distance of 152 feet. So if you really want to catch plates, you might have to zoom in.
Posted by BabySam
FL
Member since Oct 2010
1504 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 7:33 pm to
quote:

I’m fairly certain if you get the angle right, you can watch the sperm enter the egg with that thing.

- "
quote:

Hopeful Doc
"

Hahahahahah....that is a great analogy...my buddy was able to zoom across the majority of the field and was able to identify a cow in the pasture based off the look...it was way TF out there...he was impressed and said he'd definitely be getting another one for up there...just said make sure not to tell his wife how much they cost!...lol
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
14962 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 7:51 pm to
quote:

At 3X zoom the horizontal FoV is 35 degrees, so the scene is 96 feet wide at a distance of 152 feet. So if you really want to catch plates, you might have to zoom in.



I’m probably right at 40-45 from where plates come into view. I’ve gone to the full 3x zoom and left it there for a day or so just to see if I could do it. I cannot. It’s not such a huge deal. It would be super easy to get a make/model and plenty of identifying features of a vehicle. And the odds of me needing that in my neighborhood are next to none.


I’ll actually go ahead and hit my zoom up the the max and show some results here in a day or two. No one has posted actual footage/capture here in a while, and they’re not EA, and you can’t see the LP anyway.


ETA- never mind. Any zoom beyond about 1.5x cuts out my view of the street because I have driveway and yard views with a somewhat peripheral street view.
This post was edited on 1/1/22 at 7:57 pm
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28707 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 7:52 pm to
quote:

Just installed/configured the G4 PTZ for my buddy at his farm. This thing is fricking amazing, which i would expect with the $1800 pricetag. Like Kork has said, the ubiquiti camera quality is incredible but you do pay a price for that.
The PTZ is one of their more reasonably priced cameras, believe it or not. Similar cameras by Hik/Dahua/UNV/etc are in the $2-3k range. Check pricing at B&H. Of course Ubiquiti's features and analytics are not up to par (yet?), but hopefully they will get there.

It is pretty crazy though that they have been selling this camera for so long and still haven't put out a mini-ptz like every other company.
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28707 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 7:56 pm to
quote:

I’m probably right at 40-45 from where plates come into view. I’ve gone to the full 3x zoom and left it there for a day or so just to see if I could do it. I cannot.
Yeah I just did a strict pixel calc. At that zoom and distance you will capture less light (so more motion blur), small vibrations in the camera can blur pixels, and at that range the angle and such have to be even more perfect. You can probably cut it in half to get a more realistic best-case range to read plates.
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28707 posts
Posted on 1/7/22 at 8:49 am to
YouTube announcement for the G4 Doorbell Pro

Main camera is 5mp, and the description says the down-facing package cam is 8mp but I believe that's a typo, would be a waste of pixels. My guess is maybe 3mp for 8mp total.

Looks like the display is more customizable (maybe), and fingerprint and card swipe door unlocking is confirmed.

Not in the EA store yet, will update with pricing once it appears.


Edit: In the store now, $299. Still says 8MP for the package camera, but the details don't make sense to me:
quote:

(1) 5MP camera with an IR LED [Video output: 1600x1200 (2MP), 30 FPS]
(1) 8MP package camera [Video output: 1600x1200 (2MP), 2 FPS, no IR LED]

Why are the cameras 5MP and 8MP if they only put out 2MP? Only thing I can figure is it will have the "magic zoom" feature that the old G3 Bullets had. I don't know if the more recent production runs are the same, but in the past the G3 Bullet had a 4MP sensor but only put out 2MP video, so you could zoom in and maintain the image quality. Basically works like optical zoom with a bit of pan/tilt. This might be handy for a doorbell package cam so you can zoom in on a particular area.
This post was edited on 1/7/22 at 9:35 am
Posted by CarRamrod
Spurbury, VT
Member since Dec 2006
57438 posts
Posted on 1/7/22 at 9:34 am to
maybe they should work on actually getting products instead of announcing new products that wont be in stock either.
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28707 posts
Posted on 1/7/22 at 9:41 am to
Yep. Obviously we don't know exactly how much stock they get in at a time, but we do know that basically all of it sells out within minutes/hours. No telling how much they could be selling.

Yet somehow their TTM revenue is ~50% higher than 2019 and 2020.
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
14962 posts
Posted on 1/8/22 at 11:20 am to
Technically an Access question rather than a Protect question, and I think the only person I can actually ask is shawnlsu, but let’s pretend for a minute that someone had a moderately neurotic wife and a unifi rack.
Let’s say that same wife really likes to know the garage door is closed.
Let’s say $500 and sweat is a small price to pay to not listen to wife’s neuroticism


Would putting a UA-Pro on the garage be able to let me view it live from the Access app +/- open/close the garage door when necessary? I currently have a meross smart opener, but I don’t love it- it sometimes doesn’t update HomeKit (directly connected accessory) on the open/close status which I think would work better with the contact sensor in the Unifi app. I currently can see a corner of the garage door on one of my Protect cameras, but it sometimes can be questionable whether the door is open/closed there- it’s not a great picture of it.

Regardless of whether I do this or not, I would probably eventually put a Flex in the garage about as far away from the door as it can go to view the interior of the garage and the door. And maybe I should just wait and do this. But…toys seem fun. And she’s intrigued by the idea, and it would be a nice way to let folks in/out of the house (we, super-securely, leave the door to the garage unlocked at all times. I half want to get a nice no-cut electric strike and put access on that door, too, but that’s another pipe dream altogether. I saw a video of a guy powering multiple doors from one hub, I don’t think he’s able to separate the pro and lite readers triggering of doors. So it would be the same as leaving the door unlocked from a security standpoint, unless you happen to know I’m mistaken there).
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28707 posts
Posted on 1/19/22 at 1:01 pm to
quote:

quote:

UP-DoorLock
Damn it. I also have considered door locks and never pulled the trigger for this or that reason. Maybe the bastards will push me over the edge.


I just hate battery powered things so much though. It is going to have to probably be pretty nice AND not require Wi-Fi 6 like the sensors.
So nearly a year later, they finally put the DoorLock in EA. Reasonably priced IMO at $99, but unfortunately it *does* require one of their WiFi6 APs to operate. And of course being part of the Protect lineup, you need to be running a controller to adopt it. Claims 10 month battery life, and I hate battery powered things as much as you do but I can't think of a better way to power a lock.

It's basically a big knurled knob that replaces the typical interior deadbolt latch while leaving the existing exterior keyed hardware. No solution for the knob/handle lock, so personally I would have to get in the habit of not locking that in order to use this.
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
14962 posts
Posted on 1/19/22 at 7:19 pm to
quote:

I hate battery powered things as much as you do but I can't think of a better way to power a lock.



I would bet nearly every door has a switch on a nearby wall, one stud or less away. Or at least 75% of entry doors in America. So, I think whoever develops the first deadbolt that charges wirelessly could sell a ton of new-install kits and a fair amount of retrofit kits.


There is a solution for a powered handle that I’ve come across in my deep dive. They jump power over the hinge and then either through a hollow door (interior, office) or could be run fairly discretely with some decorative conduit/raceway.



My problem is the lack of innovation in something that is begging for it. I don’t even want rights to something like this. Anyone alive: create a deadbolt that draws power from a powered hinge. Give me a 120v plug or hardwire from a switch box option. I’ll pay you. Or a wireless charging one that charges from the strike. I’ll pay even more.



This is why I like Access so much. But there isn’t a consumer deadbolt option with Access that’s really practical (mag lock, even if sightly, requires motion sensor for exit or it’s a fire hazard. Which means throwing the breaker opens your door. You can secondarily lock it. But then you sort of defeat most benefits of a smart lock

The deadbolts that exist typically hide in the frame and penetrate the door, either from top/bottom, but I suppose the side could work (it would be a big project on a wooden door frame and seems like a strictly commercial solution unless someone can point me elsewhere)

Powered latches seem great. But then you don’t have a deadbolt. The routing actually isn’t horrible. The “no cut” strikes would require a little routing, but not bad. But I don’t want a handle-latch only option.
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28707 posts
Posted on 1/19/22 at 8:55 pm to
quote:

I would bet nearly every door has a switch on a nearby wall, one stud or less away. Or at least 75% of entry doors in America. So, I think whoever develops the first deadbolt that charges wirelessly could sell a ton of new-install kits and a fair amount of retrofit kits.
You're talking about wireless charging over a multi-foot air gap, correct? Like a behind the switch device that puts out a focused/directed beam of power? I read about some concept tech like that for charging phones just by being in the room, but I don't know the status of it and it sounds pretty far out there at this point.
quote:

There is a solution for a powered handle that I’ve come across in my deep dive. They jump power over the hinge and then either through a hollow door (interior, office) or could be run fairly discretely with some decorative conduit/raceway.
I've thought of this before, as well as a wireless charging pad in the latch side frame, but I don't think it would be worth it as a retrofit. If we call it $10 and 5 minutes to change batteries, and twice a year, over a decade that's only $200 plus a couple hours of homeowner leisure time vs. whatever the cost of charging hardware plus a few hours of electrician/handyman time.

It might be feasible for a new install if someone would develop a PoE system. I think it would be fricking fantastic if you could run a cat6 to the door to power a switch device in the wall cavity, which could in turn power a video doorbell as well as Qi chargers in the frame to keep your deadbolt, latch, and maybe even automated blinds charged up.
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
14962 posts
Posted on 1/19/22 at 10:37 pm to
quote:

You're talking about wireless charging over a multi-foot air gap, correct?


No way! I’m talking about a contact charger like is used in cell phones. It doesn’t take a ton of work to drill out the deadbolt “pocket” similar to a powered strike. I’m talking about like a 12v powered strike that transmits power to the deadbolt whose mechanical “guts” are like all the consumer wifi deadbolts (retrofit onto the door)



quote:

It might be feasible for a new install if someone would develop a PoE system. I think it would be fricking fantastic if you could run a cat6 to the door to power a switch device in the wall cavity, which could in turn power a video doorbell as well as Qi chargers in the frame to keep your deadbolt, latch, and maybe even automated blinds charged up.




That’s exactly the sort of thing I had in mind. It would even be decent as a retrofit if thought of right. You cut a 1 or 2 gang hole in the drywall at latch-level, you hop power over from a wall switch (2-gang option for if you have to drill a stud to get there, then you wire over to the latch of the deadbolt a wireless charger and then some external camera/reader/sensor, and then you have it all running from a little “hub” that goes on the 1 or 2 gang wall plate that would, for instance, allow you to lock/unlock all doors. Alternatives- tiny external viewer screen + “smart” hub. Alternative- security-type keypad that would allow you to enter temporary passwords (in the setting of a deadbolt with keyphrases)


In that scenario, I think a retrofit works, but you sort of would need a device with function that fits into the hole required into the drywall.

As half baked as this sounds, you can tell why I’m not in product development.
This post was edited on 1/20/22 at 10:39 am
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