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re: Why Can't the United States Assemble a Championship Soccer Team?
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:05 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:05 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
Correct, I don't think anyone would argue with you on that.
You just did in this thread. Good job on arguing over a minuscule difference in opinion yet again.
0
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:05 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Even the English have been trying for years to get away from their brand of football.
i'd love nothing more than america to develop a new style that says "frick you" to the establishment in europe
What makes you think the US of A would triumph with punt and run under it?
Classic Chelsea or Bob ball?
The once in a century Confed Cup win would still exist with the same frequency of occurrence. I don´t see anything changing. Really.
This post was edited on 2/3/13 at 1:08 pm
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:09 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
1. Being Lebron James or Chris Paul doesn't mean you will succeed in any sport.
no, but i'd put good money that if those 2 guys had played soccer form a young age they'd be playing at the top level today
quote:
3. Soccer will NEVER, at least in the near future (20+ years), attract the thousands of top athletes that your "dream" requires in the US.
and that's why this discussion will never die
quote:
4. If soccer is ever to get to that point, it will:
a. Need to drastically improve its academies, and pump millions upon millions of dollars into the domestic league.
or just develop relationships with top european teams so our players go to their academies
we could follow the south american model (and i know brazil is pumping money into its league, but that's really recent)
quote:
b. More than likely target the Harvin's, Welker's and Sproles' of the country.
i'd hope we'd target everyone
the shitty thing for US soccer is that we don't have to target percy harvin. like i said a few pages ago...go look at CBB. there are multitudes of amazing guys who have no shot at a pro career in basketball (size/athleticism) but could have had a shot in soccer
if we could just get 10-25% of these guys to get serious in soccer going forward, we'd seem dramatic improvement (even if our training levels stayed at the same level)
i do strongly believe that the USNT could develop a non-traditional scheme and get us into the top 5-6 consistently
i wish that we had more aggressive thinkers from the top in american soccer to develop new schemes
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:12 pm to Dandy Lion
quote:
What makes you think the US of A would triumph with punt and run under it?
quote:
Classic Chelsea or Bob ball?
i didn't say we use an existing model. i said develop a NEW model/style. thinking outside the box
one annoying thing about soccer is the group think that goes on at the top levels. that's the only reason i support spain, for changing the paradigm the past 7-10 years or so
my point is that if spain can develop a new style succeeding with midgets, america can develop its own style
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:13 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i'd hope we'd target everyone
the shitty thing for US soccer is that we don't have to target percy harvin. like i said a few pages ago...go look at CBB. there are multitudes of amazing guys who have no shot at a pro career in basketball (size/athleticism) but could have had a shot in soccer
if we could just get 10-25% of these guys to get serious in soccer going forward, we'd seem dramatic improvement (even if our training levels stayed at the same level)
i do strongly believe that the USNT could develop a non-traditional scheme and get us into the top 5-6 consistently
i wish that we had more aggressive thinkers from the top in american soccer to develop new schemes
Bingo, this is what I've been trying to say this whole thread.
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:13 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:using athletes of the type to which you refer, punt and run under it is the only thing I see.
my point is that if spain can develop a new style succeeding with midgets, america can develop its own style
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:14 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
there are multitudes of amazing guys who have no shot at a pro career in basketball (size/athleticism) but could have had a shot in soccer
Agree 100% that those are the athletes we should be targeting if this dream ever came to fruition. For now, I think our soccer pool is athletically good enough. We should invest in better development, and as a result of that, will attract more "elite" (a vague term really, us Americans seem to label football or basketball stars with this term, yet deny soccer players) athletes.
I agree with you hypothetically. Realistically I don't.
This post was edited on 2/3/13 at 1:16 pm
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:15 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i wish that we had more aggressive thinkers from the top in american soccer to develop new schemes
You and me both.
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:34 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
one messi
Obviously. No one else would want a stupid name like that.
quote:
i picked ronaldo b/c of the longer strides, fwiw
I know. He's just not who I immediately think of when I think of a truly top dribbler. It's probably one of the few activities where midgets have privilege. I also don't know how well someone who is 6'9" would fair bounding around like Ronaldo does. Yaya Toure, maybe.
quote:
i don't know about this. if anything he may lose some jumping but he'd develop better explosiveness running
Those two aren't mutually exclusive. He basically spent his childhood doing plyometrics with a ball. Basketball obviously attracts naturally explosive athletes, but it's not a bad sport to play if you're looking develop it, either.
quote:
well 6-0 isn't some outlier in soccer
It isn't, but is he stylistically similar to smaller dribblers? (I'm serious. I don't follow basketball too well)
quote:
i think this is part of an older style of thinking that could possibly be changed by our guys
To an extent. I don't think that Lebron would be Jan Koller if he developed into a good player, but everyone has limitations, even Lebron James. He just has less of them.
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:41 pm to joey barton
quote:
I also don't know how well someone who is 6'9" would fair bounding around like Ronaldo does
he does ok in smaller spaces against better athletes currently
quote:
but is he stylistically similar to smaller dribblers?
there really isn't a divergence in dribbling in the NBA
quote:
I don't think that Lebron would be Jan Koller if he developed into a good player, but everyone has limitations, even Lebron James. He just has less of them.
well we can also switch it up and think about what lebron could do as a CB
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:47 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
SlowFlowPro
Youre putting waaaaayyyy too much stock on size and strength. Its no where near important in soccer as it is in NBA or NFL.
This post was edited on 2/3/13 at 1:48 pm
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:49 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
no, but i'd put good money that if those 2 guys had played soccer form a young age they'd be playing at the top level today
CP3 would be raw. His vision is incredible. Paul could be a nasty CM.
I am not sold on Lebron being a great soccer player unless he played a position that did not require as much constant movement. Huge guys like that are not great endurance wise. I do not how he would fare with all the running. He would have to be a keeper, CB, or maybe a target striker.
One difference between soccer and most basketball players is their endurance to run. Soccer players can translate incredibly well to have distance running, but most basketball players cannot (Rip Hamilton is a fairly notable exception - he can somehow run like a 5 minute mile). There are just different types of athletes.
FWIW, I have only read like 5% of this thread, so I am sorry if my shite is rehashed or stupid.
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:52 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
CP3 would be raw. His vision is incredible. Paul could be a nasty CM.
he could play so many positions if he put his mind to it. he could have been an NFL CB/S/RB/WR if he wanted
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:53 pm to Atom-Z
quote:
. Its no where near important in soccer as it is in NBA or NFL.
just because FIFA has been pushing to make soccer "smaller" doesn't mean it isn't important
that's for another thread, though
but, the fact remains that if you can have players of equal skill who are bigger and stronger, you pick the bigger and stronger guys
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:56 pm to SlowFlowPro
Paul's talent would be best be utilized at CM. I guess you could move him to the wing, but his vision is easily his best attribute. It is honestly Pirlo or Iniesta like.
I still am not convinced about most of these 6'8" athletes in the soccer. I could rape most of these guys in a test of endurance.
Also, I do not think all of the skills can translate into soccer. There are very few incentives to being tall in soccer, unlike basketball and football.
I still am not convinced about most of these 6'8" athletes in the soccer. I could rape most of these guys in a test of endurance.
Also, I do not think all of the skills can translate into soccer. There are very few incentives to being tall in soccer, unlike basketball and football.
This post was edited on 2/3/13 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 2/3/13 at 1:58 pm to cwil177
quote:
This is the biggest misconception about why the US isn't a soccer powerhouse. I used to think it too, but this has very little to do with it.
I'm right there with you.
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:00 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
he does ok in smaller spaces against better athletes currently
I was talking about Ronaldo's 7000 stepovers that he needs to beat people when he's not dribbling on the counter
quote:
well we can also switch it up and think about what lebron could do as a CB
I think the best argument to be made for something new that an elite athlete like Lebron could bring to the game would be that he would be an extremely tall defender who would be less likely to be victimized by small attackers
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:04 pm to ohiovol
quote:
Correct, I don't think anyone would argue with you on that. But let's clear a few things up:
1. Being Lebron James or Chris Paul doesn't mean you will succeed in any sport.
2. With our current developmental system, those players would only marginally, if any, improve our current player pool.
3. Soccer will NEVER, at least in the near future (20+ years), attract the thousands of top athletes that your "dream" requires in the US.
4. If soccer is ever to get to that point, it will:
a. Need to drastically improve its academies, and pump millions upon millions of dollars into the domestic league.
b. More than likely target the Harvin's, Welker's and Sproles' of the country.
Bingo.
Also, 6'7-8 seems to be the upper limit for professional soccer.
And for someone like Chris Paul to improve our pool we would need him to pick up a soccer ball at age 3 and never let it leave his feet. Good luck getting an inner city kid (without immigrant parents) to do that. We would also need coaches who could adequately develop his skills, and I'm not convinced we have that already.
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:05 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
just because FIFA has been pushing to make soccer "smaller" doesn't mean it isn't important
What are you referring to?
Posted on 2/3/13 at 2:08 pm to Atom-Z
quote:
What are you referring to?
physical play has been penalized a great deal in the past 5 years or so
bigger teams (and i mean like Man U, not a team of lebrons in hypothetical land) should have a huge advantage over teams like barca in terms of physicality, but when refs call fouls that reward small teams for being weak, it eliminates the advantage
size and power should be an asset but they're not called as a detriment
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