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re: What exactly is going on with Pulisic?

Posted on 12/20/18 at 2:00 pm to
Posted by SirWinston
PNW
Member since Jul 2014
99879 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 2:00 pm to
Well said
Posted by Riseupfromtherubble
You'll Never Walk Alone
Member since Jun 2011
39498 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 2:26 pm to
quote:

Thanks for proving you have no idea what you are talking about

He’s only 20, he can’t walk for free when his contract is up




His contract is up in 2020. What exactly prevents him from walking for free when his contract is up as a 22 year old? It didn't stop 22 year old Max Meyer from leaving the bundesliga for the premiere league on a free. Didn't stop 22 year old Goretzka for leaving on a free. Enlighten me
Posted by StraightCashHomey21
Aberdeen,NC
Member since Jul 2009
126568 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 2:43 pm to
quote:

His contract is up in 2020. What exactly prevents him from walking for free when his contract is up as a 22 year old? It didn't stop 22 year old Max Meyer from leaving the bundesliga for the premiere league on a free. Didn't stop 22 year old Goretzka for leaving on a free. Enlighten me



When a player under 23 contract expires

When they move to another club, that club must pay a tribunal fee a player of his caliber if he is worth £60 million on the last year or his deal will still cost who ever gets him a good amount. It’s to reward clubs for developing players and not getting hung to dry if they leave.

So you don’t know what you are talking about
This post was edited on 12/20/18 at 2:45 pm
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39153 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 2:43 pm to
He's probably referring to tribunal money owed to clubs that develop players, if those players leave before a certain age. I think it applies to younger players, such as when a Barcelona youth product is poached at 16 (as Spanish law limits professional contracts to 18), and not to situations like Pulisic.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39153 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 2:47 pm to
quote:


When a player under 23 contract expires


Yeah you are right, but isn't it limited to the UK and not to the continent? The rules here are somewhat confusing. I can think of lots of tribunal fees between English clubs, but not one involving a German club. I've seen tribunal fees between Arsenal and Barcelona, but otherwise I'm coming up empty with regards to the Bundesliga.
Posted by StraightCashHomey21
Aberdeen,NC
Member since Jul 2009
126568 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 2:50 pm to
City took the 8 million for Sancho bc they knew he would go cheaper

quote:

Madrid are reported to have offered this to the youngster, and are looking to pay a 'gesture fee' now amounting to £8million in order to bypass a tribunal.


and another one about to happen.

but yes the rules are confusing and a ton of times the fee does not get reported.
This post was edited on 12/20/18 at 3:06 pm
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39153 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 3:07 pm to
Maybe that was their thought process, and to be frank, the examples of tribunal fees for players under 20 are much more numerous than for players above 20, hence why I brought up the numerous Arsenal-Barcelona examples, but I can't seem to find other examples. Bayern didn't pay a fee for Goreztka, nor Palace for Meyer. Meyer and Goreztka were clearly developed by Schalke, yet there is no evidence that Schalke received any fees.

Who would be owed money in Pulisic's case? He spent less than a year in Dortmunds academy, and though he technically counts as a graduate, we both know most of his technical education was in America. If I remember rightly, Tottenham paid a nominal fee for Lewis Holtby before he moved on a Bosman, but was that money distributed to Alemania Aachen, who developed him, or Schalke, who bought him?
Posted by Riseupfromtherubble
You'll Never Walk Alone
Member since Jun 2011
39498 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 3:07 pm to
quote:

When they move to another club, that club must pay a tribunal fee a player of his caliber if he is worth £60 million on the last year or his deal will still cost who ever gets him a good amount. It’s to reward clubs for developing players and not getting hung to dry if they leave.

So you don’t know what you are talking about



So what is a "good amount?" Meyer was valued at 16 million and Palace had to pay 450k, or basically pennies. So Dortmund can sell him for a lot of money or get substantially less in a compensatory fee.

So in the context of this discussion he is for all intents and purposes either leaving for a huge sum or leaving for a sum that any club in the top 6 leagues in the world can afford. No, it's not technically "free', congrats on the technicality I guess.
Posted by StraightCashHomey21
Aberdeen,NC
Member since Jul 2009
126568 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 3:17 pm to
quote:

So what is a "good amount?" Meyer was valued at 16 million and Palace had to pay 450k, or basically pennies. So Dortmund can sell him for a lot of money or get substantially less in a compensatory fee.



we have no idea, but he wouldn't go for pennies

quote:

So in the context of this discussion he is for all intents and purposes either leaving for a huge sum or leaving for a sum that any club in the top 6 leagues in the world can afford. No, it's not technically "free', congrats on the technicality I guess.




dude you were proven wrong, take the L on the chin and just own up to it.
Posted by StraightCashHomey21
Aberdeen,NC
Member since Jul 2009
126568 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 3:20 pm to
quote:

Maybe that was their thought process, and to be frank, the examples of tribunal fees for players under 20 are much more numerous than for players above 20, hence why I brought up the numerous Arsenal-Barcelona examples, but I can't seem to find other examples. Bayern didn't pay a fee for Goreztka, nor Palace for Meyer. Meyer and Goreztka were clearly developed by Schalke, yet there is no evidence that Schalke received any fees.


the whole process is a blur, Rise said Meyer went for 450k. I don'th think Goreztka was ever reported

quote:

Who would be owed money in Pulisic's case? He spent less than a year in Dortmunds academy, and though he technically counts as a graduate, we both know most of his technical education was in America. If I remember rightly, Tottenham paid a nominal fee for Lewis Holtby before he moved on a Bosman, but was that money distributed to Alemania Aachen, who developed him, or Schalke, who bought him?


I think that would have to be worked out b/w Dortmund the Hershey club he grew up with. Im sure there was something in the contract.
Posted by Riseupfromtherubble
You'll Never Walk Alone
Member since Jun 2011
39498 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 3:25 pm to
quote:

we have no idea, but he wouldn't go for pennies


Which is it, you have no idea or he wouldn't go for pennies? Meyer went for pennies.

You're in here acting like a tribunal fee and a transfer fee are near equal value. Goretzka and Meyer walked on a free, their new clubs paid a tribunal fee. It's why Schalke has locked up all of their young talent until 2021-2022, because they realize they royally fricked up and obviously are not getting close to market value in the tribunal fees.

I wasn't proven anything. I just gave two examples of kids the same age leaving their home bundesliga club on a free, and you're in here saying shite like "good amount"

In the market, that is what's known as a free transfer

Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39153 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 3:28 pm to
quote:

the whole process is a blur, Rise said Meyer went for 450k. I don'th think Goreztka was ever reported


He might have. I'm doing all this shite based on memory.

quote:

I think that would have to be worked out b/w Dortmund the Hershey club he grew up with. Im sure there was something in the contract.



My view is that 16 should be the professional age, as you are pretty much the player you are going to be by then, and all that's left to develop is decision making. Technical skills don't generally improve after that age, and the money and time Dortmund put into his development was minimal. The developing club should be the one that gets the tribunal fee. In Pulisic's case, I doubt the Hershey club will get anything.
Posted by StraightCashHomey21
Aberdeen,NC
Member since Jul 2009
126568 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 3:29 pm to
quote:

Which is it, you have no idea or he wouldn't go for pennies? Meyer went for pennies.

You're in here acting like a tribunal fee and a transfer fee are near equal value. Goretzka and Meyer walked on a free, their new clubs paid a tribunal fee. It's why Schalke has locked up all of their young talent until 2021-2022, because they realize they royally fricked up and obviously are not getting close to market value in the tribunal fees.

I wasn't proven anything. I just gave two examples of kids the same age leaving their home bundesliga club on a free, and you're in here saying shite like "good amount"


Yet Dany Ings went for 6.5 million fricking pounds
Solanke went for 3 million

neither of which are a good as Pulisic, so you have no idea what he would be valued at in the tribunal

quote:

In the market, that is what's known as a free transfer



but he isn't walking for free, don't move the goal post bc you were not correct.
Posted by StraightCashHomey21
Aberdeen,NC
Member since Jul 2009
126568 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 3:36 pm to
quote:

My view is that 16 should be the professional age, as you are pretty much the player you are going to be by then, and all that's left to develop is decision making. Technical skills don't generally improve after that age, and the money and time Dortmund put into his development was minimal. The developing club should be the one that gets the tribunal fee. In Pulisic's case, I doubt the Hershey club will get anything.




yea unless when he left for Dortmund it was written in the deal they get any sell on money. They will probably be left out to dry.
Posted by Riseupfromtherubble
You'll Never Walk Alone
Member since Jun 2011
39498 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 3:43 pm to
quote:

neither of which are a good as Pulisic, so you have no idea what he would be valued at in the tribunal


quote:

The Professional Football Compensation Committee will set Solanke's cost based on a number of factors including his playing record, the terms of the contract offered to him, the length of time at his previous club and the interest shown by other teams.


Solanke was at Chelsea since the age of 8. Ings joined Burnley in 2011 and scored a boatload of goals

quote:

"The rules are very clear that you look at historic fact because future outcomes are irrelevant to his value at the day you sign him," football lawyer Dan Chapman told ESPN FC.

"Liverpool's argument would be that Chelsea failed to persuade him to sign a new contract for whatever reason and, therefore, can't look to what he's done since. "Potential isn't actually one of the factors.

The difficulty Chelsea have is demonstrating is that while he was at their club, he had this level of reputation that he would be worth a fortune."

He added: "Some clubs don't understand the system. They go for what they could think on a transfer on deadline day, but that's a different test and market. With a transfer player, you hold all the cards because he's under contract. You can ask for whatever you want. "If Chelsea were selling Solanke then I'm sure they could have got £10m. But they weren't selling him, he was a free agent."


Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39153 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 3:46 pm to
quote:

neither of which are a good as Pulisic, so you have no idea what he would be valued at in the tribunal



He'd almost certainly be valued at less than 10. There isn't a precedent for anyone being valued more.
Posted by StraightCashHomey21
Aberdeen,NC
Member since Jul 2009
126568 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 3:48 pm to
Yes no shite clubs don't get full value on a tribunal fee

i don't think anyone would say otherwise

It is often why some clubs accept the transfer offer bc they don't want it to go to tribunal.
Posted by StraightCashHomey21
Aberdeen,NC
Member since Jul 2009
126568 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 3:49 pm to
quote:

He'd almost certainly be valued at less than 10. There isn't a precedent for anyone being valued more.




Yea but that could set the bar

players of his quality and marketability usually don't hit the market at that age where he can sign with who he wants.

Would def be uncharted territory.
This post was edited on 12/20/18 at 3:50 pm
Posted by GeauxTigers2020
Member since Sep 2013
28667 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 3:50 pm to
(no message)
This post was edited on 11/7/25 at 1:28 pm
Posted by StraightCashHomey21
Aberdeen,NC
Member since Jul 2009
126568 posts
Posted on 12/20/18 at 3:51 pm to
I didn't think I would have to explain what a tribunal is
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