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Posted on 5/6/19 at 8:03 pm to
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39153 posts
Posted on 5/6/19 at 8:03 pm to
quote:

Well it's an opinion that exist outside of this board & on a global scale whether you like it or not


It's mostly an American opinion, where people get crowned "world champions" even though a few countries play its sports.

quote:

Didn't Messi say that the game "owed" him a World Cup??


Nah Sampaoli, his coach did.

quote:

As amazing as Cruyff was he isn't in the Pele & Maradona discussion solely for his lack of a title with the Netherlands.


One, he's been regarded as the best player of the 70s, which sandwiches Pele's and Maradona's eras. And his legacy is far bigger, as he introduced the Rinus Michaels style to Barcelona. I think part of Pele's and Maradona's dominance is the visibility of the Brazil-Argentina rivalry. Yet, it makes no sense to hold Cruyff above a player like Beckenbauer, if titles are the deciding factor. The inconsistency is crazy. Attacking players are over-represented too. Beckenbauer is punished, essentially, for not having been an attacking player, despite being as important a player as any of the three mentioned above, as well as just as revolutionary. Here are four examples of lists so we can have some context.
LINK

LINK

LINK

LINK

1 of these rates Cruyff above Pele and Maradona, and has solid reasons for doing so.

quote:

Same reason why you hardly ever hear about Best & Di Stefano. Neither could even make it to a World Cup.


You have to be kidding me. Best and Di Stefano regularly make such lists. Zico makes these lists, even though he never won anything. And bringing up Di Stefano, for example, played for 3 nations and never played in a WC because the two teams he played for in the fifties, Argentina and Colombia. Argentina withdrew from the '50 WC and didn't even try to qualify for the '54 WC. Colombia withdrew from the '50 WC and was banned from the '54 WC. He was 32 by the time the '58 WC happened, but Spain didn't qualify. How in the hell should this be held against Di Stefano? It doesn't make any sense. Furthermore, the first five years of his career, there was no WC held at all, meaning he had no chance until '58.

quote:

Funny you bring up Kahn but everytime people talk about the greatest goalies of this era he isn't at the top.


LINK

LINK

He was generally regarded as among best of his era, along with Schmeichel. LINK

His battle with Lehman had as much to do with Klinsmann wanting to cement his reputation as a risk-taker as it was about Kahn losing his spot. Kahn did win the Euros with Germany though, but somehow that's less than Barthez in these measures, even though he was regarded as a better keeper than Barthez.

The biggest problem with the view that WC's should count is two-fold. First it favors the bigger nations who can actually win the WC. Only 8 nations have won it. Does that mean only players from those 8 nations can be regarded as the best?

Secondly, the WC before 1982 was a completely different tournament, and the modern iteration that arose in 1998 is much harder to win than those earlier tournaments. Given how much the game has changed with the change in the off-side rule in 2005, it's gotten even more difficult.
This post was edited on 5/6/19 at 8:04 pm
Posted by jrtplaya21
Member since Jan 2013
3291 posts
Posted on 5/6/19 at 8:43 pm to
Thank you for your insight you brought a lot of valid points to the table. You still missed this while piecing together your rebuttal though. Messi agreed with his coach. Yes Di Stefano and Best make the list once you get outside of the top 5 best ever but I meant in the discussion of GOATS they typically come up short after the big 3.

LINK
This post was edited on 5/6/19 at 8:48 pm
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39153 posts
Posted on 5/6/19 at 8:57 pm to
quote:

Messi agreed with his coach.


It doesn't seem like he's agreeing in an entitled way. It seems he took it as a joke, which the interview noted by saying that he laughed.

quote:

After Argentina qualified for Russia 2018, coach Jorge Sampaoli said that football owes Messi a World Cup. Did you hear that and what do you make of it? Yes, I did hear it, and he said it to me too. I hope football does end up paying me! (laughs)


Without a video we won't end up knowing for sure.
Posted by Vicks Kennel Club
29-24 #BlewDat
Member since Dec 2010
31210 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 3:20 pm to
frick it, I will overreact based on today’s game.
Posted by UnluckyTiger
Member since Sep 2003
41158 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 3:45 pm to
I remember running on the field at MetLife when Chile made his arse quit after the Copa Centenario.
Posted by McCaigBro69
TigerDroppings Premium Member
Member since Oct 2014
45273 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 3:54 pm to
This thread has aged horribly.
Posted by Bench McElroy
Member since Nov 2009
34684 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 3:55 pm to
quote:

This thread has aged horribly.



No, it didn't. Messi is still by far the best footballer to ever play the game.
Posted by McCaigBro69
TigerDroppings Premium Member
Member since Oct 2014
45273 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 3:58 pm to
quote:

No, it didn't. Messi is still by far the best footballer to ever play the game.


How many times has CR7 blown a 3-0 lead
Posted by Breadstick Gun
Freeport, FL
Member since Apr 2009
10352 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 3:58 pm to
Bye Messi! Bye Suarez!
Posted by UnluckyTiger
Member since Sep 2003
41158 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 3:59 pm to
Messi needs a better cast around him!!! Look at that sad group he has to carry on his shoulders.

Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39153 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 3:59 pm to
quote:

This thread has aged horribly.



Nah. Individually Messi can still be the best, and not get team accolades.
Posted by CelticDog
Member since Apr 2015
42867 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 3:59 pm to
quote:

This thread has aged horribly. 



No, it didn't. Messi is still by far the best footballer to ever play the game


What has he done for you lately?
Posted by jrtplaya21
Member since Jan 2013
3291 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 3:59 pm to
Lmaoooooo ouch
Posted by cwil177
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2011
29548 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 4:00 pm to
quote:

How many times has CR7 blown a 3-0 lead

Lol is Messi the only one for Barcelona on the field? Or is that just your expectation that he will play forward, midfield, defense, and goalie simultaneously?
Posted by Breadstick Gun
Freeport, FL
Member since Apr 2009
10352 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 4:02 pm to
quote:

cwil177


Dude you are melting.
Posted by Bench McElroy
Member since Nov 2009
34684 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 4:03 pm to
quote:

How many times has CR7 blown a 3-0 lead



Who cares? That's like saying Roger Federer isn't the GOAT because he blew a two set to Tsonga at Wimbledon. Tom Brady blew a 21-3 lead in the AFC Championship Game. Paolo Maldini's AC Milan blew a 3-0 lead to Liverpool in the Champions League final 14 years ago. I guess all of those bad losses destroyed those players legacies.
Posted by McCaigBro69
TigerDroppings Premium Member
Member since Oct 2014
45273 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 4:05 pm to
These Messi tears are delicious
Posted by uway
Member since Sep 2004
33109 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 4:06 pm to
CR7 > Messi because he never let his team sign Jordi Alba
Posted by Vicks Kennel Club
29-24 #BlewDat
Member since Dec 2010
31210 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 4:06 pm to
Messi is (unfortunately) still the goat, but this is prime trolling time.
Posted by kengel2
Team Gun
Member since Mar 2004
33425 posts
Posted on 5/7/19 at 4:06 pm to
quote:

Nah. Individually Messi can still be the best, and not get team accolades.


Barcelona is stacked. No reason for this.
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