re: .

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The youngest winner was Ronaldo, who won at 20 years old in 1996,

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My bad. On my phone I read Ronaldinho.

(no message)

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Nope. Cristiano is a great header of the ball. Messi is not

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Yup.

I'm not basing it off any single tournament, this whole thread was started because of a single free kick. After Ronaldo's free kick hat trick to tie Spain there was a similar thread just the other way around. That's how good they are and how close they are linked. For a lot of people it's what have you done for me lately.

I'm just saying Argentina has been plenty good to win a tournament and the closest they ever got was because nobody could score on them. Not because Messi did anything amazing. In 4 knockout games they scored 2 goals even though 3 of them went to overtime. Messi scored 0

Put them next to another, put them in front of the top 20 gaffers in the world.

I'm not completely sure it would be absolute, but I don't foresee CR even getting three to select him.

One is polyfacetic, one is a two trick pony.

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Put them next to another, put them in front of the top 20 gaffers in the world.

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I don't know. What point in your career are we talking about? They both came up as inverted wingers, and transformed into different players. Ronaldo was heavily involved in the build-up, as much as Messi was, in the Mourinho teams, especially that one year they scored a ton of goals. Messi's transformation into a playmaker mimics the transformation a lot of wingers make when they get older, but he's shown no real clip in his productivity, which is the crux of my argument as to why he's better. Ronaldo's move forward means he's much more reliant on service than he once was, though he can create his own shot fairly well. Right now I'd argue most managers would choose Messi because of his versatility, but if this were 2012, I'd wager more managers would be split.

It's only since 2015 we've seen a real divergence, and I think that's a function of the teams they were on. Messi lost Xavi, and there was no like for like replacement available, and he had to move deeper in order to jumpstart the attack. Madrid built a wonderful midfield axis, which freed Ronaldo to attack even more, which he did.

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My argument for Ronaldo would be that he has done it in different leagues, different managers, different systems etc... Messi has been playing in the same system since he was like 10 years old

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I think this would be a good reason, if not for the fact that Messi and Ronaldo already affect the systems they are in to a degree that it makes the point moot. Once Ronaldo blossomed, systems were built around him to the same degree that systems were built around Messi. They've gone in different directions, because they are good at different things, but they've never been part of a system, in their primes, where they've been anything other than the centerpiece.

I'm consistently amazed at how rattled some get on this board when their opinions are challenged. I've watched this game for 17 years and played it for longer. I prefer others to the Messiah. He's probably the most talented player to ever play. Don't shoot the messenger. I guarantee if he manages to finally win something with his nation the debates will be over. Until then bicker on

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I'm consistently amazed at how rattled some get on this board when their opinions are challenged.

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No one is rattled. It's just that this

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I guarantee if he manages to finally win something with his nation the debates will be over.

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is an alarmingly stupid opinion. Messi could have played for Spain and been the unquestioned GOAT, but his decision on who to represent affects his status? That's a completely nonsensical opinion. We can clearly see he's in a entirely different tier than players like Zidane, who I noted earlier, were far more inconsistent than Messi, C. Ronaldo, and even a player like Eden Hazard. Fat Ronaldo might have reached this tier if not for his knee injuries, and even then, the only season he matched Messi or Cristiano was his season with PSV and his season with Barca.

To put it another way, Johan Cruyff's lack of international title would somehow count against him is an insane line of logic that I can't understand. Again, is Fabian Barthez a better GK than Oliver Kahn by virtue of Barthez's WC medal? Is Hugo Lloris a better keeper than a player like Jan Oblak, solely because of Lloris's WC medal?