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re: .
Posted on 5/4/19 at 12:56 am to RandySavage
Posted on 5/4/19 at 12:56 am to RandySavage
quote:
And Messi could never do what Ronaldo has done all over Europe
I'm sure Messi could join famous, top-tier teams across Europe and win league titles. But he was already at one of the biggest clubs in the world and had no reason to leave.
0
Posted on 5/4/19 at 1:08 am to Masterag
Ronaldo is probably a better runner without the ball too. He excels at finding space, in an entirely different way than Messi.
Messi's game now, as opposed to 2010ish era, is about dictating play, driving the team forward, making defense splitting passes (often the same pass to Alba) and finishing moves. Messi is a lot more involved in the offensive facets of the game than Ronaldo. They've gone in different directions as they've aged. Ronaldo works almost exclusively around the box, whereas Messi works deeper. The loss of Xavi forced Messi to drop deeper and in doing so he's become among the best playmakers in the world.
I'd argue that Messi is more versatile too. He's played with a wider variety of attacking partners, from Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Henry, Pedro, Villa, Suarez, and Neymar, among many others. All those players had remarkably different styles of play and Messi has thrived with all of them. He essentially plays 3 attacking positions for Barca right now, as a forward who occupies wide positions and central positions, a no. 10 and a withdrawn playmaker, going all the way back to combine with his DM and CBs to dictate play and move Barca up the field. I can't stress how remarkable this is, in terms of his goal production. That's why he is better than Ronaldo for me.
Messi's game now, as opposed to 2010ish era, is about dictating play, driving the team forward, making defense splitting passes (often the same pass to Alba) and finishing moves. Messi is a lot more involved in the offensive facets of the game than Ronaldo. They've gone in different directions as they've aged. Ronaldo works almost exclusively around the box, whereas Messi works deeper. The loss of Xavi forced Messi to drop deeper and in doing so he's become among the best playmakers in the world.
I'd argue that Messi is more versatile too. He's played with a wider variety of attacking partners, from Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Henry, Pedro, Villa, Suarez, and Neymar, among many others. All those players had remarkably different styles of play and Messi has thrived with all of them. He essentially plays 3 attacking positions for Barca right now, as a forward who occupies wide positions and central positions, a no. 10 and a withdrawn playmaker, going all the way back to combine with his DM and CBs to dictate play and move Barca up the field. I can't stress how remarkable this is, in terms of his goal production. That's why he is better than Ronaldo for me.
Posted on 5/4/19 at 9:20 am to crazy4lsu
He's the best I've seen and even with all those gifts he will never lift a World Cup. Give me prime Zidane & Ronaldo any day of the week over Messi & Cristiano. For all their greatness neither can turn it up for the biggest event in the sport.
Posted on 5/4/19 at 9:28 am to jrtplaya21
Should we tell this guy that soccer is a team sport and Messi routinely balls out for a surprisingly mediocre Argentina team that thinks “pass the ball to Messi and hope for the best while he gets quadruple teamed” is a viable strategy?
Posted on 5/4/19 at 9:58 am to jrtplaya21
By this logic, Zion will never be a great CBB player because he never won a title in a single-elimination tournament.
Posted on 5/4/19 at 10:28 am to jrtplaya21
quote:
He's the best I've seen and even with all those gifts he will never lift a World Cup. Give me prime Zidane & Ronaldo any day of the week over Messi & Cristiano. For all their greatness neither can turn it up for the biggest event in the sport.
Those Brazil and French teams were absolutely loaded, and not only that, they had functional systems. Portugal won Euro 16 off a decently functional system, but also benefited from tournament expansion, as they drew their first three games, finishing third in their group. In previous years they wouldn't have made it out of the group. They did well enough in the knockout stages and the final, though Ronaldo played little part in the final.
Portugal, in other tournaments, has struggled to build a team around Ronaldo, just like Argentina has with Messi. Yet both have had some success at the international level in light of those problems. International play, even more now than in Ronaldinho and Zidane's era, is in the low-block, where teams are often compact and narrow, making it difficult for teams in general to break down. The teams that have done well in this era are the ones with superb deep passers, like Pirlo, Xavi, Kroos, Modric, and Pogba (as he played fairly deep in Deschamps system). Portugal and Argentina especially, have not produced players of the requisite quality, on a consistent basis, to allow them to excel in the international game. William Carvalho played wonderfully in Euro 16, but he isn't really a between the lines passer. Argentina produced Fernando Gago, who could have filled that role, if not for the Argentine's FA inability to find a manger who could make the most of his roster.
Posted on 5/4/19 at 11:17 am to crazy4lsu
Yeah I'm not reading either essay you two wrote so you're wasting your time. Messi had great players in 2014 & still couldn't get over the line. Oh well.
Posted on 5/4/19 at 11:19 am to jrtplaya21
And I played the sport for the majority of my life so again you're wasting your time. Zion won and ACC title which is a single elimination tournament. But guess what? He still gets clowned for not doing what Anthony Davis did. It's amazing in other sports all the GOATs have won their sports biggest prize but the so called one of this generation gets a pass. Absolutely comical.
This post was edited on 5/4/19 at 11:25 am
Posted on 5/4/19 at 11:22 am to jrtplaya21
quote:
And I played the sport for the majority of my life so again you're wasting your time.
So did I? I'm not sure what this has to do with the conversation.
quote:
It's amazing in other sports all the GOATs have won their sports biggest prize but the so called one of this generation gets a pass. Absolutely comical.
Not really. The modern game has shown you need an FA that works effectively from the top down. Belgium, France, Iceland, Germany, and Spain are blatant examples of what a good organization can do to help the national team in tournaments. Each of them learned from their organizational failures at different points, reformed, and developed a system that wasn't dependent on one coach, player, or person. The Argentine FA is straight up the group responsible for Argentina's failures in tournament play. Even then, they reached three finals in a row, despite the organizational chaos they had.
This post was edited on 5/4/19 at 11:26 am
Posted on 5/4/19 at 11:27 am to crazy4lsu
I don't need anyone telling me it's a team sports. Exceptional individuals have turned up on the biggest stages even with subpar supporting cast. Why can't Messi for Argentina? When he loses this Copa America what will the new excuse be? The man should've played for Spain ha.
This post was edited on 5/4/19 at 11:38 am
Posted on 5/4/19 at 11:38 am to jrtplaya21
quote:
I don't need anyone telling me it's a team sports.
The game has changed in a significant way. The football associations of numerous countries have shown you need a top-down approach to be successful at the international level.
quote:
Exceptional individuals have turned up on the biggest stages even with subpar supporting cast.
You think this is what happened in Portugal's case in 2016? They drew 4 games, scored 9 goals, and Ronaldo didn't play for most of the final. Messi was player of the tournament in 2014, scored half of Argentina's goals and was their best player by a wide margin. Even Maradona, in 86, had help, as Jorge Valdano contributed 4 goals.
quote:
When he loses this Copa America what will the new excuse be?
Who knows. The Argentine team still has a lot of problems, and have a novice manager.
This post was edited on 5/4/19 at 11:39 am
Posted on 5/4/19 at 4:25 pm to jrtplaya21
I don’t know why the guy who might know on this board is wasting his time with you.
Why are you acting like losing a single game to Germany is such a black mark?
Messi rings the bell just about every damn time. Even though I root for Ronaldo between the two, it’s pretty easy to see that Messi has an edge.
Why are you acting like losing a single game to Germany is such a black mark?
Messi rings the bell just about every damn time. Even though I root for Ronaldo between the two, it’s pretty easy to see that Messi has an edge.
Posted on 5/4/19 at 5:22 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:Yeah. I don't get people thinking it's high treason or something akin, to simply admit the obvious.
Even though I root for Ronaldo between the two, it’s pretty easy to see that Messi has an edge.
Posted on 5/5/19 at 10:10 am to jrtplaya21
quote:
But guess what? He still gets clowned for not doing what Anthony Davis did. It's amazing in other sports all the GOATs have won their sports biggest prize but the so called one of this generation gets a pass. Absolutely comical.
He won the champions league.
Your equating playing for a national team that you don't even play for year round to a guy winning an NBA title or a superbowl with bought for players.
It's not comparable. You're lucky if you even get to play in a single world cup. It doesn't happen every year.
This post was edited on 5/5/19 at 10:15 am
Posted on 5/5/19 at 10:29 am to dgnx6
Winning the Champions League isn't some special feat anymore considering the same teams have been winning it going on 20 years now. Again I never stated Messi wasn't the best ever. I just prefer a guy who was the best player on Earth at 19-20 and showed it on the biggest stage multiple times & a guy who dragged an aging France past the likes of Spain, Brazil & Portugal in straight games. For Messi to have had teammates like Riquelme, Ayala, Zanetti, Crespo, Tevez, Aguero, Higuaín, Di Maria, Mascherano, Maxi, Lavezzi, Pastore, Heinze etc over the years and to not have won anything will always be a mark on his resume. He knows it & the world knows it.
This post was edited on 5/5/19 at 10:31 am
Posted on 5/5/19 at 10:33 am to jrtplaya21
(no message)
This post was edited on 11/13/25 at 11:34 am
Posted on 5/5/19 at 11:01 am to jrtplaya21
quote:The example you give is Zidane and Ronaldo who were both on stacked teams (and Zidane being in his own country)? And I don’t understand the basketball comparison considering there are more than the double the players in a soccer match and there isn’t a back and forth possession where one player can literally take over the game.
I don't need anyone telling me it's a team sports. Exceptional individuals have turned up on the biggest stages even with subpar supporting cast
Messi is the greatest all around player to ever play the game.
Posted on 5/5/19 at 1:21 pm to jrtplaya21
quote:
I just prefer a guy who was the best player on Earth at 19-20
Are you talking about Ronaldinho here? He was at Gremio until he was 21. I don't think he was generally considered best in the world until 2004-ish, though his breakout party was definitely the 2002 WC.
quote:
a guy who dragged an aging France past the likes of Spain, Brazil & Portugal in straight games.
Zidane's performance was brilliant that tournament, but he had the best striker of his generation, Henry, in front of him, and two of the best midfielders of his generation, Makelele and Vieira, behind him. Even though they were older, they were still in the prime of their careers, Makelele especially.
quote:
Riquelme, Ayala, Zanetti, Crespo, Tevez, Aguero, Higuaín, Di Maria, Mascherano, Maxi, Lavezzi, Pastore, Heinze
Riqeulme, Ayala, Zanetti, Maxi, and Crespo didn't play with Messi that long. That 2006 Argentina team was actually the best Argentina team Messi has been on. Zanetti and Cambiasso should have made the 2010 team too.
Tevez couldn't play with Messi, unfortunately, Aguero and Higuain have gone missing for long portions of their international careers. I mean, how many chances did Higuain miss in the WC final? I remember at least 3. He was profligate that entire tournament. Di Maria has been hot and cold internationally, Mascherano was great in 2014, but he's not the elite passer you need, Lavezzi sucked in 2014, and Pastore didn't play all that much that tournament. Of all those players, which player could play balls between the lines so Messi wouldn't have to drop deep. Argentina has had a massive hole at LB. Who do they have that will make runs to allow Messi to spread the field from the inside-right channel to the outside left?
I could say the same for Portugal, in fact, as Ronaldo's generation of players is largely a failure. Quaresma was hyped but couldn't deliver. Portugal hasn't had a striker of any quality since Pauleta. Nani was great for a couple of seasons, but seemed to want to occupy the same spaces as Ronaldo. Portugal did have a better midfield, with Moutinho and Carvalho, as well as a better defense, with Pepe and Bruno Carvalho, and a seemingly innumerable amount of wingbacks.
At this point, you probably aren't reading, but Portugal and Argentina saw that they had a weakness deep in midfield, in terms of rotating the ball between the lines consistently, and thus both decided to adopt low-block, defensive postures and counter-attack, to mitigate this. Both worked for them, as both reached the final, where anything can happen. It happened for Portugal and didn't for Argentina.
This post was edited on 5/5/19 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 5/5/19 at 3:19 pm to crazy4lsu
"The youngest winner was Ronaldo, who won at 20 years old in 1996, and the oldest winner was Fabio Cannavaro, who won aged 33 in 2006." 
Posted on 5/5/19 at 3:23 pm to jrtplaya21
quote:
Winning the Champions League isn't some special feat anymore
What a fricking moronic statement
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