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Started By
Message
re: Should MLS have relegation?
Posted on 5/13/18 at 7:15 pm to chalmetteowl
Posted on 5/13/18 at 7:15 pm to chalmetteowl
quote:
TV is the reason we have two MLS teams now in LA and NYC
This is true.
quote:
TV will have a lot to say about who exactly they allow to be relegated...
This is not true.
0
Posted on 5/13/18 at 7:18 pm to chalmetteowl
No doubt. With the MLS TV contract being re-negotiated after 2022, you can bet the league wants to establish itself in as many big markets as possible.
I also expect MLS expansion teams to be announced in at least one of Phoenix or Detroit in the next year or so. Phoenix’s bid is reminding me a lot of Nashville in that it’s gaining traction very quickly. Plus they’re a huge market in a hotbed of soccer in the Southwest. It’s a no-brainer to put a team there.
Detroit has some work to do, but I expect that will happen sometime in the coming years. Cincinnati seems 99.9% in. Official announcement should be any day now.
I also expect MLS expansion teams to be announced in at least one of Phoenix or Detroit in the next year or so. Phoenix’s bid is reminding me a lot of Nashville in that it’s gaining traction very quickly. Plus they’re a huge market in a hotbed of soccer in the Southwest. It’s a no-brainer to put a team there.
Detroit has some work to do, but I expect that will happen sometime in the coming years. Cincinnati seems 99.9% in. Official announcement should be any day now.
Posted on 5/13/18 at 7:26 pm to Michael Stein
MLS doesn’t need anymore teams
Unless we create MLS II and have promotion/relegation that way
Bc the league is already too big
Unless we create MLS II and have promotion/relegation that way
Bc the league is already too big
Posted on 5/13/18 at 7:27 pm to chalmetteowl
quote:
Relegation would also be boring if it was a foregone conclusion the relegated team would come back quickly. In England, some relegated teams get relegated again and that drives home the consequences of it.
What universe do you live in
The fear of going down makes sure teams don’t sand bag it and clubs should be punished
Unlike in MLS, the shite teams can stay shite with no consequences
Posted on 5/13/18 at 7:31 pm to JEAUXBLEAUX
It will never work here. Why do people keep doing this to themselves? I would be all for it but soccer is clearly fourth behind the other three major sports and their minor leagues. There is no way this will work here. In other countries soccer is the only pro sports game in town/whole country.
He'll we have major pro franchises moving around because of the competition from other sports etc.
No. Relegation will never happen in MLS and the reasons why are very clear.
He'll we have major pro franchises moving around because of the competition from other sports etc.
No. Relegation will never happen in MLS and the reasons why are very clear.
This post was edited on 5/13/18 at 7:34 pm
Posted on 5/13/18 at 7:35 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
Unlike in MLS, the shite teams can stay shite with no consequences
They'll lose support if they just stay shite forever. It's not like they're benefiting from being shite either because the MLS draft is pretty worthless.
Posted on 5/13/18 at 7:35 pm to Michael Stein
Relegation is a concept that is totally foreign to the average American sports fan, including those who are now consistently showing up to games. It has to be implemented delicately and after MLS franchises have financial stability and multiple generations of knowledgable fans who are willing to support a side with fervor regardless of division. That is typically not the American sports fan. When your NFL team is shite you at least know that quick turnarounds are possible and you'll at least have a crack at it next year. If it's a competitive second division and you're a relegated mess, the fans have no idea how long they're stuck there. It's way too early to be risking team solvency after all the growth that is happening organically. Existing markets still have a lot of work to do.
MLS 1 and MLS 2, 20 teams each (perfect world round robin format but being realistic Americans require playoffs). 3 teams move. No relegation from 2, it's a closed universe of 40 teams.
But not till 2030-2040 or a time that it can reliably said that a fan base won't disappear upon relegation...because that dynamic has never occurred to the American sports fan so far.
MLS 1 and MLS 2, 20 teams each (perfect world round robin format but being realistic Americans require playoffs). 3 teams move. No relegation from 2, it's a closed universe of 40 teams.
But not till 2030-2040 or a time that it can reliably said that a fan base won't disappear upon relegation...because that dynamic has never occurred to the American sports fan so far.
This post was edited on 5/13/18 at 7:46 pm
Posted on 5/13/18 at 7:39 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:Nah.
Bc the league is already too big
Posted on 5/13/18 at 7:40 pm to TomRollTideRitter
I wonder how pro/rel would work with a salary cap with regards to TV contracts. Media rights companies don't need to worry about Manchester United, Barcelona, etc. getting relegated because there is no salary cap (FFP doesn't count).
With a salary cap, ESPN or whoever would have to worry about the possibility of major markets falling out of the top tier. At the same time, I don't think teams in America can succeed with no realistic possibility of winning a title. Most teams in the Premier League have the same chance at the league title as G5 football teams.
With a salary cap, ESPN or whoever would have to worry about the possibility of major markets falling out of the top tier. At the same time, I don't think teams in America can succeed with no realistic possibility of winning a title. Most teams in the Premier League have the same chance at the league title as G5 football teams.
This post was edited on 5/13/18 at 7:43 pm
Posted on 5/13/18 at 7:45 pm to TomRollTideRitter
quote:
They'll lose support if they just stay shite forever. It's not like they're benefiting from being shite either because the MLS draft is pretty worthless.
Pshhhh
DC United has been shite almost all the last ten years and people still go
And we just got a $300+ million dollar stadium about to open
Hell even some of the good teams like Houston have crappy attendance
Posted on 5/13/18 at 7:45 pm to RemouladeSawce
It's also a facility issue. I love going to FC St Louis matches but there is no way a 5k stadium would keep them competitive and there is a laughably short supply of capitol to improve to MLS standards without public money.
Relegation works without a market of other sports to compete with the soccer league.
We have three pro sports the surpass MLS easily in market share and revenue.
Sometimes I think hardcore US fans are so quick to try and mimic world football that they don't realize it will kill the sport professionally here in the US
Relegation works without a market of other sports to compete with the soccer league.
We have three pro sports the surpass MLS easily in market share and revenue.
Sometimes I think hardcore US fans are so quick to try and mimic world football that they don't realize it will kill the sport professionally here in the US
Posted on 5/13/18 at 7:46 pm to pvilleguru
quote:
Nah
Yea it is
Makes perfect sense to add more teams to a league already lacking depth and quality
All that does is make the overall talent pool worse
It’s already one of the biggest first divisions in the world
This post was edited on 5/13/18 at 7:48 pm
Posted on 5/13/18 at 7:52 pm to StraightCashHomey21
I don’t think the logic that expansion teams dilute the quality of the league necessarily applies to MLS. It absolutely does to our other sports because there is a very finite and mostly American talent pool for those sports. But soccer isn’t like that. There are thousands of players from all over the world to improve the league as the salary rises.
Some expansion teams like Chivas USA will be shitty and make the league worse, sure. But others like Atlanta United and LAFC will immediately make the league better. The benefits of expansion far outweigh the drawbacks for MLS if they handle it right.
And I don’t think MLS is “too big” just yet. We have like 5x the population of England and way more big population centers than them, so 30 teams as opposed to 20 isn’t crazy for an American League. Countries like Spain and England have one or two huge population areas that can support multiple clubs, but the US has huge cities spread pretty evenly throughout the country from coast to coast. If MLS wants to be a truly national league, even 25 teams is barely enough. That still leaves out huge markets like Phoenix and many others. Eventually it will need to be split into MLS 1 and MLS 2, though.
Some expansion teams like Chivas USA will be shitty and make the league worse, sure. But others like Atlanta United and LAFC will immediately make the league better. The benefits of expansion far outweigh the drawbacks for MLS if they handle it right.
And I don’t think MLS is “too big” just yet. We have like 5x the population of England and way more big population centers than them, so 30 teams as opposed to 20 isn’t crazy for an American League. Countries like Spain and England have one or two huge population areas that can support multiple clubs, but the US has huge cities spread pretty evenly throughout the country from coast to coast. If MLS wants to be a truly national league, even 25 teams is barely enough. That still leaves out huge markets like Phoenix and many others. Eventually it will need to be split into MLS 1 and MLS 2, though.
This post was edited on 5/13/18 at 7:59 pm
Posted on 5/13/18 at 7:54 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:Isn't that a good thing that will hopefully make your team better?
And we just got a $300+ million dollar stadium about to open
Posted on 5/13/18 at 7:54 pm to StraightCashHomey21
DC United is near or at the bottom of MLS in attendance, and the new stadium is opening because of an impending change in the ownership group.
What does this have to do with pro/rel?
quote:
Hell even some of the good teams like Houston have crappy attendance
What does this have to do with pro/rel?
Posted on 5/13/18 at 7:54 pm to Michael Stein
Lol the only way it does dilute the talent pool is if the players come from home grown and our top quality.
Adding more teams makes the talent pool worse
We need to stop at 24
Adding more teams makes the talent pool worse
We need to stop at 24
Posted on 5/13/18 at 8:00 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
It’s already one of the biggest first divisions in the world
It's also in one of the highest populated countries in the world. I think the US and Canada combined have about 6 or 7 times the population of England and Wales.
Posted on 5/13/18 at 8:02 pm to TomRollTideRitter
But it doesn’t have the local talent to support such a big league of 28+ teams
Pro/Rel will put an emphasis on developing your own talent
Pro/Rel will put an emphasis on developing your own talent
This post was edited on 5/13/18 at 8:04 pm
Posted on 5/13/18 at 8:04 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:I will be the first to admit that watching MLS is often excruciating, but the path to the quality of football we all want occurs through getting into as many markets as possible as quickly as possible. We need financial scale and TV deals if we want to increase the volume of international stalwarts before their twilight years.
Makes perfect sense to add more teams to a league already lacking depth and quality
All that does is make the overall talent pool worse
It’s already one of the biggest first divisions in the world
It's not conventional, but the rest of the world has a head start of over 100 years. We are five times the population of the UK who have four divisions of teams (92) that are consistently watched.
Posted on 5/13/18 at 8:05 pm to StraightCashHomey21
MLS has helped our Concacaaf completion far more than its helped the USMNT and that's damn ironic.
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