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Posted on 6/16/12 at 7:13 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
The truth is that we haven't done a very good job with the athletes that we do get of giving them technical skills required to succeed at a high level.
The truth is, if more of our best athletes played soccer: our country would invest more into it financially and culturally, we would have a deeper pool of athletes to choose from, and we would have better coaching/training methods to develop that better pool of players. So IMO, better athletes = better USMNT
Posted on 6/16/12 at 7:23 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Which is mostly a stupid argument. Athletically, we are already one of the top teams in the world.
I do not agree with this. Time and time agin i see teams with waaaaaaayyyyyyyyy more speed than us. I just dont see landon donovan as one of the top athletes in our country, im sorry i just dont.
A big argument could be made for bball stars playing goalie. Tim howard actually made the harlem globetrotters, so he prob wasnt that bad at basketball either. And weve never really lacked talent at the gk position. so it doesnt really matter.
I also agree with one of the other posters, deeper pool of athletes would mean a better pro league and better competition all around for soccer players in the us.
Take all he pro athletes in the us see what pecentage are soccer players, and it would be way less than other countries.
This post was edited on 6/16/12 at 7:28 pm
Posted on 6/16/12 at 7:27 pm to mynamebowl
quote:
The truth is, if more of our best athletes played soccer: our country would invest more into it financially and culturally, we would have a deeper pool of athletes to choose from, and we would have better coaching/training methods to develop that better pool of players. So IMO, better athletes = better USMNT
You are right that it cuts in both ways.
It is of course preferable to have the massive advantage of a Brazil and Germany that have much larger population bases than other powers. However, countries with much smaller pools of athletes (Italy, Holland etc) have traditionally kept pace by better developing the ones they have.
I agree with crazy4lsu in that the most vital area for improvement is developing the talent that we have already playing soccer. One could easily argue that the Japanese are just as much newcomers as we are and have a much smaller talent pool but are producing more technically astute players right now.
This post was edited on 6/16/12 at 7:29 pm
Posted on 6/16/12 at 7:32 pm to wm72
quote:
You are right that it cuts in both ways.
It is of course preferable to have the massive advantage of a Brazil and Germany that have much larger population bases than other powers. However, countries with much smaller pools of athletes (Italy, Holland etc) have traditionally kept pace by better developing the ones they have.
My question though is, do these smaller countries really have less of a pool to choose from? i would think not. yeah italy and holland are smaller countries, but their best athletes always have and will play soccer. Soccer there is like baseball here. Everyone fricking played atleast tee ball growing up. Dont know many kids that didnt.
The game of soccer wasnt introduced to me until i was 7 years old. I had already played baseball and tenis before i ever saw a soccer ball. And of course i watched lsu football/basketball with my rents. they were also huge saints fans.
Until i started playing, my parents knew nothing about it. 20 years later and my mom still watches the usmnt and the uswnt. She prob wouldnt if i never played.
This post was edited on 6/16/12 at 7:38 pm
Posted on 6/16/12 at 7:44 pm to dgnx6
quote:
My question though is, do these smaller countries really have less of a pool to choose from?
Italy and Holland's talent pool compared to ours is a good point.
We have, I suppose, roughly 8-12 times their population but they probably do have as many kids growing up playing soccer.
However, my point was a bit more that they compete equally with Brazil and Germany historically even though these countries have the advantage of a much, much larger pool of soccer specific athletes.
The point I was making about US development is that we are not even really keeping up with Japan without the help of kids who grow up in other countries.
Posted on 6/16/12 at 7:57 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Which is mostly a stupid argument. Athletically, we are already one of the top teams in the world. The truth is that we haven't done a very good job with the athletes that we do get of giving them technical skills required to succeed at a high level. That said, having better athletes choose the sport will increase our pool, which is one of the requirements for long term sustained success. But time and again, at tournament after tournament, you see the more technical, disciplined teams winning over teams with excellent athletes, save for a few exceptions. If we can raise our technical standards to be on par with the rest of the world, then we can use the athletes we do get to their fullest potential.
This man is wise. Heed what he says, for he tells the truth.
This "what if" argument is really stupid, for reasons already mentioned. It makes me want to
This post was edited on 6/16/12 at 8:05 pm
Posted on 6/16/12 at 8:22 pm to wm72
quote:
However, countries with much smaller pools of athletes (Italy, Holland etc) have traditionally kept pace by better developing the ones they have.
The difference here is that Italy and Holland devote all their attention to soccer instead of splitting up their sporting attention spans as we do in America, if you will. Unless you count basketball for Italy, which, for my arguments sake I won't.
Oh, and frick Japan, we are better than them
Posted on 6/16/12 at 8:24 pm to dgnx6
quote:
My question though is, do these smaller countries really have less of a pool to choose from? i would think not. yeah italy and holland are smaller countries, but their best athletes always have and will play soccer.
Exactly
Posted on 6/16/12 at 8:26 pm to cwil177
quote:
This "what if" argument is really stupid, for reasons already mentioned. It makes me want to
Then go away. Not all of us have ever had a chance to discuss said 'what if' argument. I'm quite enjoying it actually.
Posted on 6/16/12 at 8:32 pm to mynamebowl
quote:
Unless you count basketball for Italy
Maybe.
What about basketball for Spain? Second-best basketball program in the world, best soccer program in the world?
Posted on 6/16/12 at 8:46 pm to WarSlamEagle
quote:
Maybe.
What about basketball for Spain? Second-best basketball program in the world, best soccer program in the world?
Yeah I don't really think soccer and basketball really compete for athletes. Different skill sets and size are required, generally.
Posted on 6/16/12 at 8:49 pm to mynamebowl
I was talking about the taking away from the other sports argument.
This post was edited on 6/16/12 at 9:13 pm
Posted on 6/16/12 at 8:52 pm to WarSlamEagle
quote:
I was add talking about the taking away from the other sports argument.
I know. I was agreeing with you. Didn't quite word it right I guess
Posted on 6/16/12 at 9:01 pm to mynamebowl
quote:
Oh, and frick Japan, we are better than them
Are we better than Japan?
To me, Japan is an interesting example for the US to consider.
There are posters on here who know more about youth development than me, but, if the US is so much better than Japan at developing talent, then where are all our homegrown players that have the technical skills of a Honda or Kagawa etc? We certainly have a lot more young people playing soccer than Japan right?
Also my argument was never comparing Italy or Holland to America. It was comparing them to countries like Brazil and Germany which by talent pool alone should be much better but historically have been about even due to development evening the field.
It's not like a Francesco Totti or Andrea Pirlo are any "athletic" specimen who would necessarily be worth a damn in basketball or football. However, they're among the greatest players of their generation who did raise a WC trophy, even if not very high since they're so short.
Posted on 6/16/12 at 9:05 pm to wm72
quote:
It's not like a Francesco Totti or Andrea Pirlo are any "athletic" specimen who would necessarily be worth a damn in basketball or football. However, they're among the greatest players of their generation who did raise a WC trophy, even if not very high since they're so short.
Perfect examples of why athleticism alone isn't enough. The soccer IQ of those guys is just so ridiculously high that it negates their lack of athleticism. Like Crazy said, a bigger emphasis needs to be put on technical ability and overall tactical awareness. While increasing the talent pool wouldn't hurt, it wouldn't automatically help either. Your examples of Holland and Italy are perfect.
Posted on 6/16/12 at 9:14 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
Agreed. We've got the athleticism to succeed, but not the technical ability. In a few WC cycles, we may get that. Heading in the right direction.
Posted on 6/16/12 at 9:18 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
athleticism alone isn't enough
You're right, it's not. But when soccer is the main sport in whichever country, there is a better chance that country will develop athletes who are athletically gifted or gifted in other ways (Pirlo, Totti, etc). Also, technical ability and skills are developed over a lifetime of playing and honing those skills. From a lot of what I've read, the teaching/coaching of the game over here is just not where it needs to be, at the youth levels, where most of a players natural skills are developed. Those other countries we have mentioned have the advantage of having their best/smartest sporting minds concentrating on soccer. Ours are not, they are in football, baseball, basketball. I know I'm kinda bouncing around on theories here, but I think I'm right
Posted on 6/16/12 at 9:22 pm to mynamebowl
I guess what you are saying is that in the "formative" years for many of these athletes, in the US these kids focus on baseball, football (american), basketball more than soccer. In other countries, it's probably soccer from day one.
Posted on 6/16/12 at 9:47 pm to wm72
quote:
However, I bet we'd have a lot of good players develop from the tons of excellent athletes that are under 6' and just play basketball and football now even though their size will eventually keep 99% of from making it in those sports.
this is what ive always thought/said. the guys that we are missing out on arent in the pros in other sports. they are the guys that couldnt make the pros in other sports because they dont have the body for bball/football but they do have the body for soccer.
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