re: Difference between European leagues

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Reus was a Dortmund youth product, hence Dortmund being his dream club.

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Yeah, he was also let go by the club. He was nothing without Gladbach.

Mario Götze is Bavarian, he was a Bayern Munich fan his entire life.

I used "homegrown" loosely and meant for it to be taken that way, as a way to describe a player who was mostly molded by the one club. I didn't include Sahin because he really didn't mean much to Dortmund last season as he was clearly and distantly behind Gundogan.

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I think you are projecting a little bit

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I'm not. cwill posts the same arguments word for word found on other sites.

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I think you are projecting a little bit. Everyone knows Dortmund is a massive club, one of the biggest in Europe. The major criticism started, as I remember it, after Goetze moved from Dortmund to Munich, and the rumors during the summer that Lewandowski wanted to move there as well. I have no clue about the reddit thing, but let's not pretend that there aren't some legitimate criticisms to be had in that situation. The announcement if the move before the game I think left some bad taste in the mouths of neutrals, as it seemed like Munich was playing head games with Dortmund. And while a team buying a rival's best player isn't unprecedented, a team buying a rival's best player right before the biggest game of the season is rather unprecedented, and obviously created a media firestorm.

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Lewandowski to Bayern Munich was known well before the final and BVB had already agreed to let Lewa go.

I have no idea who leaked the Mario Götze move and I don't think it was supposed to be announced because I think it was agreed to for a while, but he wasn't even healthy enough to play in the game. He missed the first month or so of this season too.

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For the sake of the Bundesliga, the league needs Dortmund to step up to the super club level, or everyone else's criticisms about it being a one team league might also become legitimate.

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That's not how the Bundesliga has worked over the years. It's cyclical. It's not like the Premiership where there's an established 4 clubs and only 2 or 3 really have a shot to win it.

The Bundesliga has their bigger clubs and no one is denying at all that Bayern is the biggest but what happens is that there's a club from the second group of teams that always hits a "golden period" probably not the best term, but they have a really successful 4 years or so where they're challenging for the league.

A few years ago, Stuttgart was challenging for the league or finishing 2nd or 3rd, they lost their good players and fell off to mediocrity but now they have the youngest squad in the league and will be challenging for titles in a couple of years. Wolfsburg won the title 5 years ago and then went to shite for a little while, now that WV is pouring money into the club, they're making solid moves and they'll be at the top of the league.

Schalke has probably the best group of young players in the Bundesliga and one of the best groups in all of Europe,too bad for them they're the opposite of lucky and they'll find a way to screw it up.

The money gap is huge and I know that but I think the problem most people face with the Bundesliga is that there isn't the Oligarchy at the top. It's one team replacing four and it's a rotation of teams in the second level who take their turn challenging for the title.




I never said that Bayern is perfect or that they don't buy players from their rivals. It's just a stupid argument to say "they're just buying up all of the talent in the Bundesliga." It's the same argument being made over and over again and it's used by people who never even watch the league or know anything about it.


eta - I respect your opinion a lot and know that you have a lot of knowledge on the game, so this isn't meant to be derogatory toward you at all.

The Bundesliga is really nothing like the SPL. These cycles of dominance have been going on for a while. Germany has a richer field of talent and a better financial structure.

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The Bundesliga is really nothing like the SPL. These cycles of dominance have been going on for a while. Germany has a richer field of talent and a better financial structure.

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Now. If this trend continues, it will be.

I think it's a testament to the league's strength that during Bayern's financial dominance, the league had four different champions. But I can't see sustained success from any of the good teams, especially with the way English teams will look to poach talent. I mean, the top team in the PL will get 100m pounds, which exceeds the entire revenue of most Bundesliga teams. The 20th placed PL team will get 63m, which is a massive number for what usually is a small club. While the Bundesliga has been doing fine this season there is a serious chance that there will be a massive drain on talent like there has been in Spain.

The equitable structure of the Bundesliga and the focus on youth means these teams will always produce talent, but I can't see any other than Bayern being able to build. Team for any sustained period.

I understand and no one is disputing that the PL is the richest of the leagues and they're only getting richer. My only counter is that the Bundesliga has very structured and effective youth setups which allow teams to continue to compete in cycles. They'll sell those players eventually, either to Bayern or the other top Bundesliga team or abroad and rebuild.

Its going to be tough for any team to consistently be the number 2 team.

I wish I could find the podcast with Thomas Tuchel explaining the mindset of Mainz because I think it accurately reflects the view that most clubs have.

EPL TV Revenue / Shares


SERIE A TV Revenue / Shares


LA LIGA TV Revenue / Shares


LIGUE 1 TV Revenue / Shares


BUNDESLIGA TV Revenue / Shares


It's not so much that the EPL is simply the richest but that they are about to double the gap on Serie A and triple/quadruple the gap on the others.


The EPL's revenue will almost double from €1.1 to €1.9 billion in 2013-14 while all the other leagues will rise approximately 10-15%.

I don't disagree with you about many Bundesliga clubs being well managed and the league having some great ideas/practices. However, the situation is dire for all the other big European leagues and any fan who doesn't want to see the EPL be the only thing going for a while.

It's not simply a Bundesliga problem but they probably do stand to be the next one strip mined by the EPL in manner that reaches up to the top of the table.

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It's not simply a Bundesliga problem but they probably do stand to be the next one strip mined by the EPL.

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I think the comparisons with Ligue 1 are prescient. France reorganized their youth structure in the 80's, producing their best generation of players in the 90's, which led to the league being plundered by Italy and England. Ligue 1 hasn't been the same, basically existing as the proving ground for young players. That has led to a great amount of parity, as they have had 9 different champions since 1992, though they had one team, Lyon, dominate winning 7 titles in a row.

Germany reorganized their youth set up after Euro 2000, and we saw that apex in the 2010 WC, with a very young German team full of players trained at German clubs and playing for German clubs. Immediately teams began poaching that talent, and by 2018, I would guess that the German national team will have ten or more players plying their trade in countries other than Germany, which would be unprecedented for German football.

It's going to be a seller's market the next few summers, because instead of 6 big teams having money to buy, you will have 20 teams having money to buy, which will make it a sellers market. Selling teams can basically name their price and they will find someone to meet it. In that situation, teams will always take the money.

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I just don't think it will be an immediate impact. Players still want to win and play in the Champions League.

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It'll be over the next four years. It's already starting to happen. Draxler, Gundogan, Ginter, and a whole host of other players have already been consistently linked to clubs outside Germany.

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If the British teams are smart, they'll reinvest into sustainable long term goals like youth academies and infrastructure rather buying more high priced players.

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This would be the reasonable thing to do. But English teams act myopically in the market. The investment in youth takes a decade, and rarely is any front office in place for a decade. The vast majority of these teams won't. They'll see a bit of glory and spend themselves into oblivion. The Germans had the forethought to have the their FA reorganize their youth system rather than the clubs themselves.

CL football is a major draw, but if enough English teams get good enough, then you could see the field tip in their favor.

This isn't a favorable outlook for European football in general. The PL marketed itself the best, has the best broadcast quality, and has the most international built-in appeal. Spain, Germany, and Italy need to realize what's going to happen, and work to make their leagues better. The fact that the international feeds for these leagues are subpar does not help grow their leagues.

Basically you are looking at the superclubs, Munich, PSG, Monaco, Barca, Real, Juventus, the Milan teams, Napoli, maybe Dortmund, Roma, and a couple of others there to compete with every PL team in the market.

I have a strong feeling that Atletico is going to be taken apart just like Dortmund, and both Simeone and Klopp will work in England at some point.

I'll be interested to see what kind of player we go after if LFC finishes in the top 4... I cant see us going after the established superstars, but maybe a tier below young and hungry...

I also think BR's strength is much more of a "coach" than manager, though he's getting better... I believe he enjoys coaching up the young guys (see improvement Sterling and Hendo) and the wayward sons (Coutinho & Sturridge)

Who knows, it will be unchartered territory for FSG this summer, if...