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Posted on 11/22/17 at 6:42 pm to Dale51
I'd prefer to see Mary Ann!
This post was edited on 11/22/17 at 6:44 pm
Posted on 11/22/17 at 6:45 pm to Revelator
First, the author of the article you cited wanted a gotcha type of headline and didn't bother doing any research to know what he is talking about
Islam is an Abrahamic religion. They believe in the same God as Christianity and Judaism (they also believe in Moses, Adam and Eve, Job, and Lot just to name a few). Islam also uses portions of the Old Testament (mostly the Torah and Psalms) and the Gospels (as given to Jesus). Muslims actually believe in Jesus (though believe he is a prophet and not a part of God). They just believe Muhammad is another prophet who was given another testament to add to the previous ones (the Quran).
So if you're talking about a museum which is dedicated to the history of the Bible and it's context in the world and omit one of the major world religions that is an issue
An article from the Atlantic also shares this sentiment:
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/11/museum-of-the-bible-arabic-koran/546224/
But if you actually wanted to make an actual point and not just get yourself riled up in an "everyone is attacking Christianity" type of mindset and actually read about this from non overtly biased sources you would have found out reasoned criticisms
--- https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/17/us/politics/bible-museum-hobby-lobby-washington.html
quote:
I’m sorry. Did Muslims all of a sudden begin using the Bible? If I’m wrong, please let me know.
Islam is an Abrahamic religion. They believe in the same God as Christianity and Judaism (they also believe in Moses, Adam and Eve, Job, and Lot just to name a few). Islam also uses portions of the Old Testament (mostly the Torah and Psalms) and the Gospels (as given to Jesus). Muslims actually believe in Jesus (though believe he is a prophet and not a part of God). They just believe Muhammad is another prophet who was given another testament to add to the previous ones (the Quran).
So if you're talking about a museum which is dedicated to the history of the Bible and it's context in the world and omit one of the major world religions that is an issue
An article from the Atlantic also shares this sentiment:
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/11/museum-of-the-bible-arabic-koran/546224/
quote:
The Bible and the Koran share several common themes, including the oneness of God, the idea that God sent messengers and prophets to inform human beings, and the recognition of Jesus as someone who relayed God’s message to people.
Yet, in the section of the museum dedicated to the Bible’s global impact, there is no mention of the Holy Book’s influence on the Koran. This shared history is only vaguely alluded to: One plaque titled “Shared Traditions—similar texts with distinct messages” states, “Ancient texts from Israel’s neighbors include many ideas, themes, and types of writing also found in the Bible. Similarities show how biblical traditions are rooted in the shared culture of the region.”
But if you actually wanted to make an actual point and not just get yourself riled up in an "everyone is attacking Christianity" type of mindset and actually read about this from non overtly biased sources you would have found out reasoned criticisms
quote:
But some biblical scholars have said the museum’s exhibits focus too narrowly on American Protestantism, and have omitted parts of the Bible’s history.
“There are a number of prominent omissions that make it clear that it’s not a museum of the Bible as one might imagine it from a secular perspective,” said Joel S. Baden, a professor of the Hebrew Bible at Yale University and author of “Bible Nation,” a book about Hobby Lobby and its investment in Christian projects.
“They don’t do a good job of talking about whether parts of the Bible are historically accurate,” Mr. Baden said.
--- https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/17/us/politics/bible-museum-hobby-lobby-washington.html
This post was edited on 11/22/17 at 6:47 pm
Posted on 11/22/17 at 7:01 pm to ctalati32
quote:
quote: The Bible and the Koran share several common themes, including the oneness of God, the idea that God sent messengers and prophets to inform human beings, and the recognition of Jesus as someone who relayed God’s message to people. Yet, in the section of the museum dedicated to the Bible’s global impact, there is no mention of the Holy Book’s influence on the Koran. This shared history is only vaguely alluded to: One plaque titled “Shared Traditions—similar texts with distinct messages” states, “Ancient texts from Israel’s neighbors include many ideas, themes, and types of writing also found in the Bible. Similarities show how biblical traditions are rooted in the shared culture of the region.”
Yep, Islam shares so much in common with Judaism and Christianity that Islam insists on killing them because of their faiths. That's an interesting way of embracing commonality.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 7:01 pm to Revelator
I'm not a Christian but this is silly. It's a museum of the Bible. Why would it include other religions?
Posted on 11/22/17 at 7:04 pm to Revelator
Stuff like this is why the billionaire Bass family of Fort Worth rescinded its multimillion dollar gift (like, a shite ton) to Yale, their alma mater.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 7:05 pm to Revelator
Someone who can make a jet pack out of some coconuts deserves to be called Professor more than a guy who wants to argue over Islam being included in a bible museum.
Yes, Abrahamic religion and all, but I’m pretty sure that the Koran doesn’t include the Old Testament or New Testament in the 114 suras.
Yes, Abrahamic religion and all, but I’m pretty sure that the Koran doesn’t include the Old Testament or New Testament in the 114 suras.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 7:29 pm to Revelator
quote:
Yep, Islam shares so much in common with Judaism and Christianity that Islam insists on killing them because of their faiths. That's an interesting way of embracing commonality.
Islam as a whole doesn't want to kill Christians and Jews and the West. If you believe that you need to lay off the propaganda.
I do admit, there are many muslims who have perverted the teachings to "justify" their specific interpretation where they are told to kill Christians and Jews and the West
Even if you want to ignore the above point, there's no reasonable denial that Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are all Abrahamic religions which ave the same roots and have diverged from there.
So if you're talking about the effects of the Bible on the world, and you ignore one of the main three which are based off of the Bible you're either ignorant or deliberately pushing a narrative which you have just demonstrated. They don't want you to believe there is any commonality between yourself and anyone of Islamic faith because it makes it that much easier for you to dehumanize them and think every single Muslim in the world is out to get you
Posted on 11/22/17 at 7:31 pm to teke184
quote:
Yes, Abrahamic religion and all, but I’m pretty sure that the Koran doesn’t include the Old Testament or New Testament in the 114 suras.
That statement is absolutely ignorant. That's like saying the New testament doesn't include the old testament so they both can't be Christian.
To Islam, the Quran is the third testament brought by Muhammad. They still use the Torah, Psalms and the Gospels of Jesus (whom they believe is merely a prophet and not God)
Posted on 11/22/17 at 7:43 pm to ctalati32
quote:
But if you actually wanted to make an actual point and not just get yourself riled up in an "everyone is attacking Christianity" type of mindset and actually read about this from non overtly biased sources you would have found out reasoned criticisms
Well if Yale was more inclusive of all students maybe we'd have taken this professor's...aw, who am I kidding? We'd have walked out pointing at laughing at the guy as he had a stroke over being called out for the fool he is.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 7:48 pm to ctalati32
quote:
...Gospels of Jesus...
Do you mean Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? Islam teaches the Gospels, as written in the Christian Bible?
Posted on 11/22/17 at 7:54 pm to ctalati32
quote:
So if you're talking about the effects of the Bible on the world, and you ignore one of the main three which are based off of the Bible you're either ignorant or deliberately pushing a narrative which you have just demonstrated. They don't want you to believe there is any commonality between yourself and anyone of Islamic faith because it makes it that much easier for you to dehumanize them and think every single Muslim in the world is out to get you
Both Judaism and Christianity worship a God named Jehoveh God and Islam does not. Allah is not Jehoveh and they don't claim that he is. This should be the end of the story.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 7:59 pm to Revelator
quote:
Allah is not Jehoveh and they don't claim that he is.
Agree. Christians and Muslims do not worship the same God.
Posted on 11/22/17 at 8:02 pm to Perfect Circle
quote:
Do you mean Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? Islam teaches the Gospels, as written in the Christian Bible?
Different definition of Gospel
Not using Gospel to refer to the 4 specific books, but the definition of Gospel as in stories / religious teachings about Jesus. There are many Gospels about Jesus that didn't meet the cut for the Christian bible.
Obviously it can't be those you listed because they recount Jesus as the son of God and therefore God himself. Islam believes that Jesus is a prophet of God and who came to teach the message of God but isn't God himself.
**Note: I haven't had formalized study regarding Islam, this is just based on reading I've done on the subject, so I may have mixed up some minutiae as it's been a while since I've really gotten into this
Posted on 11/22/17 at 8:12 pm to Revelator
quote:
Both Judaism and Christianity worship a God named Jehoveh God and Islam does not. Allah is not Jehoveh and they don't claim that he is. This should be the end of the story.
Well, except they are the same ... well mostly. It's complicated
The term allah is originally a conjunction of the one of the polytheistic gods Al-Ilah who existed long before Islam was a religion. Eventually the word Allah became to be synonymous with the concept of God in general
When Islam was founded the name Allah was coopted to refer to the main creator god of Islam who is the god of Abraham who is the same as Yaweh and Jehovah.
Now, if you try to do research on the subject if Allah and Jehovah are the same god you'll see a lot of No answers in there through a technicality. In Christianity, the trinity exists so Jehovah is also the Hold Ghost, and Jesus. You can't necessarily separate God the Father from the others. So in that interpretation of what Jehovah is they [being Allah and Jehovah] aren't the same (though semantically then Christians and Jewish people don't believe in the same god for the same reason)
So depending on which definition of Allah and Jehovah you choose to use you will get differing answers if they are the same God or not
But to the crux of the argument which was of pointing out the similarities between Christianity and Islam. They both follow the same God that Abraham did, (though their interpretations of the evolution of that God are different). But basically they have the same roots.
This post was edited on 11/22/17 at 9:10 pm
Posted on 11/23/17 at 2:30 am to ctalati32
quote:
But to the crux of the argument which was of pointing out the similarities between Christianity and Islam. They both follow the same God that Abraham did, (though their interpretations of the evolution of that God are different). But basically they have the same roots.
Simply put, Christians worship a different God than Muslims and, for that matter, Jews worship.
While they share some faith origins in the God of Abraham, Christians worship the one and only Triune God, who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Neither Muslims nor Jews recognize Jesus Christ as God, begotten of the Father. Thus, they do not worship the same God.
Islam, like many other religions that came about subsequent to Christ's resurrection, have attempted to use parts of the Christian tenets, while distorting the rest. Some even called or still call themselves Christian. A recent example would be Mormonism. Earlier examples would be Arianism or Gnosticism.
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