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re: Who has been involved in more wars since WWII than the United States??
Posted on 9/15/17 at 4:31 pm to Cassius
Posted on 9/15/17 at 4:31 pm to Cassius
Vietnam wasn't quite the same thing though the same principles directed American involvement. there's a very nuanced discussion there (not that any of these conflicts lacked nuance)
korea being the first instance of the soviets poking the fences testing things out...absolutely. if our standard policy was to tuck tail and run away, the soviets would have occupied a great chunk of the planet either directly or indirectly.
korea being the first instance of the soviets poking the fences testing things out...absolutely. if our standard policy was to tuck tail and run away, the soviets would have occupied a great chunk of the planet either directly or indirectly.
1
Posted on 9/15/17 at 4:45 pm to DelU249
The spread of Communism across the world was a direct threat to our interest both militarily and economically.
Posted on 9/15/17 at 4:45 pm to Zach
quote:
there was no central communist entity out to get the USA.
Really? So, they were lying when they said they were out to get us?
Exactly.
And the Cuban Missile Crisis wasn't really a thing, either.
Posted on 9/15/17 at 4:49 pm to Cassius
I don't really have a strong opinion on Vietnam...the reasons certainly weren't without merit and neither were the reasons against it...actually, yeah dumb hippies make a bad case. the arguments have gotten better since then
but korea is the least complex thing considering it was the same situation as in Germany and the first test post world war 2. tucking tail and running just wasn't an option.
but korea is the least complex thing considering it was the same situation as in Germany and the first test post world war 2. tucking tail and running just wasn't an option.
Posted on 9/15/17 at 4:50 pm to I B Freeman
quote:
There were communists that wanted countries to be communist and aroused enough like minded people to start revolutions in countries and those revolutions were sometimes supported with Soviet arms and stuff but there was no central communist entity out to get the USA.
Yeah, this was the same bullshite Maj. Malcolm Powers tried to push, until GYSGT Highway set him straight. "Local fanatics" my arse.
Posted on 9/15/17 at 4:53 pm to I B Freeman
How many country's governments have been overthrown since WW2?
Posted on 9/15/17 at 4:56 pm to KiwiHead
quote:
You left out WWI....Wilhelm of Germany had no beef with the US...the Lusitania notwithstanding. He really had no beef with the British Empire, hell, his first cousin was the King of England....not even sure he really wanted to get involved with the French. Point is, we really had nothing to merit our involvement in Europe at that time
We did have an interest in WWI. Wilhelm was stupid to sink the Lusitania and to send the Zimmerman telegraph. Prior to that Wilson was bound and determined to stay out of that war.
So unlike the post WWII conflicts our interest were clear in WWI. The Germans were attacking Americans at sea and conspiring to wage war with the Americans.
Posted on 9/15/17 at 4:57 pm to DelU249
McArthur saved us in Korea and his strategy would have avoided many of the problems we see today. Truman did the right thing at the time but McArthur has been found correct by history.
This post was edited on 9/15/17 at 4:59 pm
Posted on 9/15/17 at 4:58 pm to BamaGradinTn
quote:and the Bolsheviks started as a global movement. Russia just sucked so badly lenin had to scrap those ambitions. post world war 2, stalin was very interested in the global spread of bolshevism.
but there was no central communist entity out to get the USA.
This post was edited on 9/15/17 at 5:02 pm
Posted on 9/15/17 at 4:58 pm to BamaGradinTn
quote:
Cuban Missile Crisis
came after the Bay of Pigs and the deployment of US missiles in Turkey.
Posted on 9/15/17 at 5:01 pm to I B Freeman
quote:and then we discovered the real reason was because their ICBMs were pieces of shite and on top of that they didn't have that many. it was a total bluff
US missiles in Turkey
so they needed medium range ballistic missiles within striking distance of the U.S. to maintain the threat of mutually assured destruction.
I had no idea you were this fricking stupid.
Posted on 9/15/17 at 5:38 pm to DelU249
58,282 names on that wall.
quote:
“I am not going to lose Vietnam. I am not going to be the president who saw Southeast Asia go the way China went.” LBJ
quote:
“We are not about to send American boys nine or ten thousand miles away from home to do what Asian boys ought to be doing for themselves.” LBJ
quote:
“We do this [escalating U.S. military involvement in Vietnam] in order to slow down aggression. We do this to increase the confidence of the brave people of South Vietnam who have bravely born this brutal battle for so many years with so many casualties. And we do this to convince the leaders of North Vietnam—and all who seek to share their conquest—of a simple fact: We will not be defeated. We will not grow tired. We will not withdraw either openly or under the cloak of a meaningless agreement.”—President Lyndon Johnson
quote:
“We are fighting a war with no front lines, since the enemy hides among the people, in the jungles and mountains, and uses covertly border areas of neutral countries. One cannot measure [our] progress by lines on a map.”— General William C. Westmoreland
quote:
“We have reached an important point where the end begins to come into view.” —General William C. Westmoreland speaking to the National Press Club on November 21, 1967
Kids dying every day and LBJ says:
quote:
“I know we oughtn’t to be there, but I can’t get out,” Johnson maintained. “I just can’t be the architect of surrender.” LBJ
quote:
“A man can fight . . . if he can see daylight down the road somewhere. But there ain’t no daylight in Vietnam. There’s not a bit.” LBJ
Finally he quits leaving men dying
quote:
''I shall not seek, and I will not accept, the nomination of my party for another term as your President.''
Posted on 9/15/17 at 5:44 pm to I B Freeman
quote:
Wilhelm was stupid to sink the Lusitania
quote:
The Germans were attacking Americans at sea and conspiring to wage war with the Americans.
The Lusitania, and other civilian ships, were secretly shipping weapons to England. We were actively aiding Germany's enemy which made us their enemy. They weren't just randomly sinking civilian ships, they knew about the weapons shipments. It was a really stupid move on the part of the US, similar to how Isis hides behind hospitals and schools. LINK
Posted on 9/15/17 at 6:49 pm to Brosef Stalin
We were trading with both sides until the Brits set up embargoes preventing trade with Germany. You are correct that we did a lot more business with the Brits.
None of that mattered--Had Wilhelm not sank the Lusitania and had not approached the Mexicans it is doubtful the US would have entered the war. Wilson was a huge pacifist and we still required declarations by Congress for war back then.
None of that mattered--Had Wilhelm not sank the Lusitania and had not approached the Mexicans it is doubtful the US would have entered the war. Wilson was a huge pacifist and we still required declarations by Congress for war back then.
Posted on 9/15/17 at 7:32 pm to I B Freeman
quote:
We should end the War Powers Act and when we go to war it should be via an act of Congress and it should be an all out war with no nation building.
I agree and frick the "playing by the rules" aspect of war.
IMO we have grown too comfortable with war because we have made war too convenient and "easy". War should be ugly. It should be devastating. When we go to war it should be done quickly, decisively, and deadly. The results should be so sickening that it makes people not want war, so that war only happens when absolutely necessary.
Posted on 9/15/17 at 7:50 pm to I B Freeman
quote:
Cuban Missile Crisis
came after the Bay of Pigs and the deployment of US missiles in Turkey.
Completely irrelevant to your point which I was replying to. Nuclear missiles in Cuba wasn't just a case of Cuban Communists picking up some Soviet military hardware.
Posted on 9/15/17 at 8:00 pm to I B Freeman
We were secretly arming the Brits. For all intents and purposes we were already in the war.
Posted on 9/15/17 at 8:54 pm to I B Freeman
You left out a bunch
Posted on 9/15/17 at 9:01 pm to dcbl
quote:
maybe, maybe not
IF they did win, then they's have had ALL the nukes 1st & we would have been fricked
if the Russians had lost, then Hitler would have had all the nukes 1st and we would have been fricked
Both of those statements are incorrect.
The Germans were completely going down the wrong path to get a nuke.
The Soviets weren't even able to build one until 1956 and that was after the Rosenbergs gave them the plans.
So no. We would have had one to use on Japan the same as we did when we did, IF not even sooner.
Posted on 9/15/17 at 9:12 pm to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
And I would argue we received back what we paid into Korea many times over.
What exactly did we get worth "many times over" 36k dead and 100k injured?
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