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Message
re: What would the current healthcare situation in America be if Obamacare wasn't passed?
Posted on 3/26/17 at 2:04 pm to Street Hawk
Posted on 3/26/17 at 2:04 pm to Street Hawk
Obamacare slowed premium increases. The saying that "obamacare caused the increased costs" is incredibly misleading and doesn't analyze the costs of healthcare prior to the ACA.
2
Posted on 3/26/17 at 2:05 pm to Street Hawk
My insurance premiums would likely be about 15% lower.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 2:09 pm to udtiger
And...you would have a reasonable deductible. It's not just the premium increase. Deductibles quadrupled in many cases.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 2:11 pm to Zach
If given a choice, some people will choose to upgrade their Lexus instead of purchasing health insurance.
There is no judgment passed in this statement, just restating it.
There is no judgment passed in this statement, just restating it.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 2:19 pm to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
That's compared to estimates.
Actual premiums saw a spike post-ACA
That simply isn't true. But good try using google.
Here is the CBO report
Also, here is the Kaiser Family Foundation report if you prefer a non-governmental entity with nonpartisan credentials.
This post was edited on 3/26/17 at 2:21 pm
Posted on 3/26/17 at 2:24 pm to DawgsLife
I don't mind my tax dollars helping those who are willing to help themselves,but we have created a generation who consider it ok and make a lifestyle of it.No pride or shame in the fact they are freeloaders.
These are the ones I have a problem with.
These are the ones I have a problem with.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 2:25 pm to a want
quote:
About where we are now.
There's a ringing endorsement for Obamacare!
Posted on 3/26/17 at 2:27 pm to slaphappy
quote:
And...you would have a reasonable deductible. It's not just the premium increase. Deductibles quadrupled in many cases.
My deductible went from $1,000 to $5,000 while the premium went from $425 to $675. (I went back to the company I retired from and took their plan for retirees bringing my premium back down to $535, but the deductible remained the same. I might as well not have insurance as I am healthy and have not met my deductible in 10 years...even when it was $1,000)
Posted on 3/26/17 at 2:28 pm to Clark14
quote:
I don't mind my tax dollars helping those who are willing to help themselves,but we have created a generation who consider it ok and make a lifestyle of it.No pride or shame in the fact they are freeloaders.
These are the ones I have a problem with.
We are on the same page!
Posted on 3/26/17 at 2:36 pm to 5thTiger
quote:
That simply isn't true. But good try using google.
My link is an actual marketplace where insurance companies offer and patients buy. That makes it a full head count.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 2:36 pm to 5thTiger
quote:
Obamacare slowed premium increases. The saying that "obamacare caused the increased costs" is incredibly misleading and doesn't analyze the costs of healthcare prior to the ACA.
Unfortunately it is hard to say one way or the other. We only have speculation for both perspectives. We don't know what premiums would have done if left alone. They might have spiked....and they might have gone down.
You provided a link to two sources saying they backed up your point....and they might. I couldn't find where it said that premiums slowed down, but that could have been because i have a very short attention span for dry material like insurance premiums, etc.
I can say that my particular insurances went through the roof and my deductible did the same, though...but that does not mean that everybody's did.
With the media being as it is, I have gotten to the point that I don't rust any of the sources, unfortunately. Things have gotten so partisan nobody is even capable of telling us the truth anymore.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 2:41 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
My deductible went from $1,000 to $5,000 while the premium went from $425 to $675. (I went back to the company I retired from and took their plan for retirees bringing my premium back down to $535, but the deductible remained the same. I might as well not have insurance as I am healthy and have not met my deductible in 10 years...even when it was $1,000)
A sharing ministry might be a better option for you than traditional insurance. You'd have a lower premium and lower deductible (which you can meet by negotiating a discount).
Posted on 3/26/17 at 2:41 pm to 5thTiger
From the Kaiser report you just linked;
There is a REASON you guys only talk in terms of "premiums" when talking about costs. It's completely disingenuous.
quote:
but the stability for premiums belies some other changes that have occurred during the period. Deductibles continued to grow in 2016; over the last five years, the percentage of covered workers facing a general annual deductible has grown from 74% to 83%, while the average single deductible amount (among those facing a deductible) increased from $991 to $1,478. These higher deductibles likely contributed to the moderating premium increases over this period.
There is a REASON you guys only talk in terms of "premiums" when talking about costs. It's completely disingenuous.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 2:54 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
Unfortunately it is hard to say one way or the other.
No it isn't.
quote:
We only have speculation for both perspectives
No we don't. Only speculations for what would have happened had it not gone into effect. But we do have solid evidence and data that says it slowed premium growth.
quote:
You provided a link to two sources saying they backed up your point....and they might
Two of the most respected analysis agency/organizations that have no partisan leanings. Kaiser Foundation is the premier health care NGO.
quote:
Things have gotten so partisan nobody is even capable of telling us the truth anymore
Thats BS. Plenty of nonpartisan agencies and organizations provide good solid analysis for policies and programs. Perhaps you just don't want to hear what they have to say, which I am okay with, just as long as people admit it. Some people just like that Trump sticks his thumb in the eyes of the establishment, no matter the cost or damage, but at least they admit that.
But this distrust of fact, anti-intellectual strain in our society is beyond dangerous. That is how governments and societies falter and fail.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 2:59 pm to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
My link is an actual marketplace where insurance companies offer and patients buy. That makes it a full head count.
No it isn't. Just demonstrably not true. Those numbers might be for that individual website, but not overall. Just as highlighted above. One persons individual plan does not mean that is the case for everyone.
This post was edited on 3/26/17 at 3:02 pm
Posted on 3/26/17 at 3:08 pm to 5thTiger
quote:
No we don't. Only speculations for what would have happened had it not gone into effect. But we do have solid evidence and data that says it slowed premium growth.
Dude. We don't know what would have happened if it had not gone into effect. To speculate what would have happened is speculation. For instance...what if the premiums had gone down had the old system stayed in place? That would indicate that ObamaCare had nothing to do with the slowing of premiums, wouldn't it? You are claiming that ObamaCare was the cause of the growth slowing down. You don't know this and there is no way to know this.
quote:
Two of the most respected analysis agency/organizations that have no partisan leanings. Kaiser Foundation is the premier health care NGO.
Don't stop reading my post. I said they might back up your post, but I didn't see where they did. I also said that it might be because I didn't want to wade through all that dry information.
quote:
Thats BS. Plenty of nonpartisan agencies and organizations provide good solid analysis for policies and programs. Perhaps you just don't want to hear what they have to say, which I am okay with, just as long as people admit it. Some people just like that Trump sticks his thumb in the eyes of the establishment, no matter the cost or damage, but at least they admit that.
Again...I don't believe there is any such thing as nonpartisan entities. The people that belong to these entities have opinions and stances, therefore their analysis can't help but be compromised to an extent. You are kidding yourself to think otherwise. I am saying that it goes both ways, but you are too partisan to even consider it.
quote:
But this distrust of fact, anti-intellectual strain in our society is beyond dangerous. That is how governments and societies falter and fail.
And what is fact? tell me. Even science has been proven wrong on occasion. It changes. It is liquid according to the information that is available at the time. At one time is was considered fact that the sun orbited around the earth. That was accepted scientific theory. People accepted it as fact.
We know better, because somebody questioned it. Blind acceptance of "fact" is much more dangerous to our society than questioning it, don't you think?
Posted on 3/26/17 at 3:09 pm to 5thTiger
quote:
5thTiger
You beat me to it.
Facts.
They're so educational.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 3:13 pm to PygmalionEffect
quote:
You beat me to it.
Facts.
They're so educational.
Again. You tell me what is a fact. It was a fact that the sun rotated around the earth at one time. Facts. So educational.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 3:16 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
You are claiming that ObamaCare was the cause of the growth slowing down. You don't know this and there is no way to know this.
That is what CBO & NGO reports are for....and yes, that is what they say.
quote:
Don't stop reading my post
Used that to respond to multiple people, not just you.
quote:
And what is fact?
Premium growth slowed as the ACA was implemented, which contradicts the claim that it caused premiums to skyrocket (as though they weren't before).
quote:
Blind acceptance of "fact" is much more dangerous to our society than questioning it, don't you think?
There is a big difference between trusting qualified individuals proclaiming fact due to their credentials and proven methods, rather than someone who has no experience or credentials on a subject. Of course, some things need to be questioned. But others definitely don't, and definitely not by some people who are doing so with no evidence or reasonable theory to.
But there are numbers and facts which will not, and do not change.
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