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re: What is the income range for "middle class" per the board?
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:21 pm to Taxing Authority
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:21 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:Depends when you are comparing it. Pre-mortgage crisis things were getting downright criminal with sub-prime lending. I was a Sys Admin for a mortgage company in Louisiana. They had McDonald's cashiers buying houses in the 200 range.
No! Not even close
1
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:22 pm to Tigerdev
quote:
Depends when you are comparing it. Pre-mortgage crisis things were getting downright criminal with sub-prime lending. I was a Sys Admin for a mortgage company in Louisiana. They had McDonald's cashiers buying houses in the 200 range.
So, you converted to talking about what, the last 10 years?
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:22 pm to ShortyRob
quote:is nothing...per usual.
all I got.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:25 pm to ShortyRob
When did we set a time period? You are like a little purse dog that follows people around and nips at their ankles for scraps.
I am saying that the combination of housing prices particularly in cities, income growth and folk's ability to qualify for financing has made starting out and building real estate equity much harder than it was. This came up because people started bring how they grew up into the equation and times have changed.
You've said nothing of substance...Now run along. No more treats.
I am saying that the combination of housing prices particularly in cities, income growth and folk's ability to qualify for financing has made starting out and building real estate equity much harder than it was. This came up because people started bring how they grew up into the equation and times have changed.
You've said nothing of substance...Now run along. No more treats.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:26 pm to ShortyRob
quote:Yup. It’s based on whether people “feel” rich.
The term "middle class" is a 100% meaningless political term.
But I know people that make north of $1,000,000 a year and are broke as isht—because they spend every dime they have. They are not “rich”. Despite their income.
My grandparents on the other hand... had a garden, “put up” cannned fruit, and hunted. Owned their (uninhabitable shack by today’s standard) home. They never had any threat of going hungry. If there was a recession-they never knew it. Never had any worries about money. To me that is rich.
I fuess growing up poor is helpful? But when I have anything leftover after paying al my bills—I feel rich. Maybe I’m modest?
This post was edited on 9/27/17 at 2:28 pm
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:27 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
Desire ability for new and larger houses is.
Because they have access to vehicles that can bring them to and from work. Personally I pay cash for vehicles, so youre preaching to the choir here.
quote:
One does not need satnav, infotainment systems, back seat headrest DVD players, and the like to commute to work.
Is it your impression that this is a statistically important number of vehicles in the average American's home? Because if not, the population of people cutting back on these items wont dent the average household budget.
quote:
So in your mind builders are building larger houses get customers don’t want to buy? That’s an interesting take.
Theyre wanting to maximize profit by offering the best amenities. At least in NYC large buildings and houses are built on price point because there is essentially unlimited demand by overseas investors.
quote:
LTV stats done show that. And I don’t see how larger is more affordable?
It's not. But with a limit of availability based on low prices, most buyers either have to buy from the available inventory or leave the area. This causes most to exceed their budget and blow up the bubble further.
quote:
Is there a minimum house size required in suburbia?
For the average family of 2.5 kids, I'd say yes. Lets take a look for example at an area that my in laws live, Dutchess County NY. Average price for a 3BR 1 bath, 1500 ft2 is like $250k. After taxes and utilities your total home note is like $2k. Now, assumming thats 1/4 of your monthly budget, thats $8k/month post taxes. Extrapolating further thats about a minimum of $160k/yr household income for a "starter home".
Obviously you could move into something smaller, but you would only buy you a short window of time before you outgrow your home. Factor in daycare (north of $2k for two kids) and you'll see that the starter home of today is not your starter home of years past.
This post was edited on 9/27/17 at 2:31 pm
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:27 pm to Tigerdev
quote:
has made starting out and building real estate equity much harder than it was.
You can get a house now with 5% down. If you're poor, zero down. At least the interest rates aren't 18% like the were in the early 80s. You can get a 200k home now for what people were buying 70k homes.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:27 pm to Tigerdev
quote:No they haven't.
but housing prices have risen at a higher rate than income in many areas
That is why both size and quality of median US homes has increased, rather than decreased.
In certain unique isolated locales -- select neighborhoods in SF, DC, or Manhattan -- housing inflation has outstripped income.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:28 pm to ShortyRob
So. Yeah.
Point of order.
Just because something has the same name doesn't REALLY mean it's the same product.
If someone cited the price they paid for their wall phone in 1980 and compared it to what they paid for their iPhone yesterday, you would rightly point out that they're talking about two fricking different products.
The same really goes for a car from 1970 vs today. A car from 1970 is so far removed from a car in 2017 that about all you can really do is call them both transportation.
And a house from the two years?
Let's just use this as an analogy.
Let's say I bought "dinner" last week and it was $10.
This week, I bought "dinner" and it was $100.
If I looked you and said, "damn, dinner prices are really getting crazy in the last week", wouldn't you obviously recognize I'm an idiot?
Point of order.
Just because something has the same name doesn't REALLY mean it's the same product.
If someone cited the price they paid for their wall phone in 1980 and compared it to what they paid for their iPhone yesterday, you would rightly point out that they're talking about two fricking different products.
The same really goes for a car from 1970 vs today. A car from 1970 is so far removed from a car in 2017 that about all you can really do is call them both transportation.
And a house from the two years?
Let's just use this as an analogy.
Let's say I bought "dinner" last week and it was $10.
This week, I bought "dinner" and it was $100.
If I looked you and said, "damn, dinner prices are really getting crazy in the last week", wouldn't you obviously recognize I'm an idiot?
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:30 pm to NC_Tigah
If you look at my posts i said that the income vs housing price issue was related to certain areas...a lot of cities.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:31 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
No they haven't. That is why both size and quality of median US homes has increased, rather than decreased.
Yep.
Dev's idiocy is like saying "diamond prices have gone up" at the same moment that the average diamond purchased is twice the size of the average diamond purchased at the beginning of the period.
You'd be like "no they didn't you stupid fricker. When prices go up, people buy SMALLER diamonds".
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:32 pm to ShortyRob
Family sizes are smaller, housing size has doubled
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:33 pm to ShortyRob
In the mid 2000s, I was involved in a transaction for a home in the Garden District of New Orleans. It was a fixer-upper and we paid 350k. After the renovations, it was valuated at around 500k.
It was recently appraised and it came back at 1.1 million dollars with no additional renovation from the original.
Same house. 10 years later. Over double the price.
It was recently appraised and it came back at 1.1 million dollars with no additional renovation from the original.
Same house. 10 years later. Over double the price.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:34 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:Which is basically rock solid irrefutable proof that housing prices are economically cheaper than they were 30-40 years ago.
Family sizes are smaller, housing size has doubled
I mean, unless we live in a bizarro economic land where, when something becomes more expensive relative to what people can afford, you get more sales of fancier versions of the product!
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:35 pm to Tigerdev
quote:
In the mid 2000s, I was involved in a transaction for a home in the Garden District of New Orleans. It was a fixer-upper and we paid 350k. After the renovations, it was valuated at around 500k. It was recently appraised and it came back at 1.1 million dollars with no additional renovation from the original. Same house. 10 years later. Over double the price.
Dear fricking God..............
This nation is fricked
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:35 pm to ShortyRob
Actually i never said any of that. You simply lack the ability to absorb and interpret information without injecting a strawman for you to argue against.
Look at the nola housing market in the last 4 years. The same houses, same square footage, same condition have skyrocketed in value.
My parents sold their empty lot from Katrina for 150k last year. They bought the house originally for 80.
Look at the nola housing market in the last 4 years. The same houses, same square footage, same condition have skyrocketed in value.
My parents sold their empty lot from Katrina for 150k last year. They bought the house originally for 80.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:36 pm to Tigerdev
quote:
In the mid 2000s, I was involved in a transaction for a home in the Garden District of New Orleans. It was a fixer-upper and we paid 350k. After the renovations, it was valuated at around 500k. It was recently appraised and it came back at 1.1 million dollars with no additional renovation from the original. Same house. 10 years later. Over double the price.
You do realize that this goes right to my point. Right?
LOL. Who am I kidding.
No. No you don't.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:37 pm to ShortyRob
quote:Still waiting on you to say something..anything...anything at all of substance regarding something I actually posted. You are making up your own arguments to argue against. It is really quite amusing to watch.
This nation is fricked
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:37 pm to Tigerdev
quote:
Same house. 10 years later. Over double the price.
In select neighborhoods that does happen.
However the average price for housing across the country is affordable. It's about 250k
Posted on 9/27/17 at 2:37 pm to Tigerdev
quote:
Look at the nola housing market in the last 4 years. The same houses, same square footage, same condition have skyrocketed in value.
It's like watching a pigeon play chess.
You're posting shite proving my point........and you don't know it. I mean. Wow.
quote:
My parents sold their empty lot from Katrina for 150k last year. They bought the house originally for 80.
Annnnnnd. Another one.
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