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re: What is the best place to be during the collapse?
Posted on 3/16/14 at 4:00 pm to rintintin
Posted on 3/16/14 at 4:00 pm to rintintin
quote:
I guess I just have faith that those changes will be made before any tragic collapse of society.
why are old people going to vote against keeping medicare/SS? why will poor people not vote to keep their programs?
quote:
And really we don't. It will never be fully repaid, as our whole financial system is based on debt. There must be debt, and there will always be debt.
Now I agree that we are getting much too extreme with said debt, but again I have faith changes will be made before Mad Max is upon us.
the debt isn't really "debt", where somebody else owns it. WE own most of that debt
we create debt by printing money. if we continue to do that, superinflation will occur.
This post was edited on 3/16/14 at 4:02 pm
1
Posted on 3/16/14 at 4:04 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Govt is growing, not shrinking and I don't see that changing bar a collapse. If someone believes the growth of govt is sustainable, and it's going to care for the welfare of most citizens, I'd say the future will be better for people.
I agree govt is growing, and I'm all for decreased govt intervention, so I am wary of it also. But even if it continues to grow I don't see a major societal collapse in the near future. They may stick their hand in our pockets more, be in our business more, and generally be more of a pain in the arse regulatory speaking, but technology will continue to prosper, businesses will continue to grow, and our lives will continue to be made easier IMO.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 4:07 pm to rintintin
quote:
businesses will continue to grow, and our lives will continue to be made easier IMO
I think the nature of business will change dramatically due to technology, and we'll be more of a service based economy. I don't have nearly the optimism you do that this is all sustainable long term.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 4:07 pm to rintintin
quote:
quote: I guess I just have faith that those changes will be made before any tragic collapse of society.
So the same agency that detroys almost everything it puts it's hand on ( the gov.) is going to suddenly change their m.o., see the error of of its ways and save us from fancial ruin? Again, wow!
This post was edited on 3/16/14 at 4:08 pm
Posted on 3/16/14 at 4:09 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
we create debt by printing money. if we continue to do that, superinflation will occur.
I'm pretty sure this is down the road.
I've got a friend who is a govt financial consultant and he believes the burden starts with local municipalities and spreads. Says many areas of the country are facing some tough choices down the road.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 4:14 pm to Revelator
quote:
Wow, so record debts, devaluing dollar, half the country on gov. assistance, record unemployment, etc. and to you think this paints a rosy picture for America and it's future? You are some opptomist.
Better quality of life
Cheaper and cheaper technology at your fingertips
Any and all products imaginable shipped to your door at the click of a button
Less physical labor than ever before
People living longer than ever
I am an optimist. You can point out everything wrong with society, while I can point out how we are evolving as a society. And I'm not focusing solely on political aspects.
There must be an optimist for every pessimist.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 4:17 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
I think the nature of business will change dramatically due to technology, and we'll be more of a service based economy.
I agree, but I invite that change. I see it as a good thing.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 4:18 pm to rintintin
quote:
Better quality of life
Cheaper and cheaper technology at your fingertips
Any and all products imaginable shipped to your door at the click of a button
Less physical labor than ever before
People living longer than ever
want a scary thought?
perhaps these advancements are only possible with massive debt and either we developed too quickly or have gone beyond the peak of natural human development. yes, 2008 may be the peak of humanity
quote:
You can point out everything wrong with society, while I can point out how we are evolving as a society.
you will find no person who promotes the development of our society than me. that doesn't mean that it is sustainable, or is not a function of debtloads that are not sustainable. or that it doesn't create its own societal issues
Posted on 3/16/14 at 4:18 pm to rintintin
quote:
but I invite that change. I see it as a good thing.
i do too, but what do we do with the massive unemployment that will follow?
serious question
Posted on 3/16/14 at 4:21 pm to rintintin
quote:
I agree, but I invite that change. I see it as a good thing.
It will probably mean a massive welfare system to maintain a high standard of living.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 4:22 pm to rintintin
quote:
Better quality of life
Cheaper and cheaper technology at your fingertips
Any and all products imaginable shipped to your door at the click of a button
Less physical labor than ever before
People living longer than ever
I' optimistic about the technology, fearful of the size of government by that time.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 4:23 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
the 2 are not necessarily related. technology and other idea-based industries are infinitely mobile
Indeed, but I see no better place to do business than here, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
quote:
and hell our cities aren't exactly full of people who even drive anymore. it wouldn't be that easy
I'm not saying it would be easy, but people would do what is necessary.
But again, I don't envision it ever getting to the point where America's greatest cities are left to ruin. It could happen. It eventually WILL happen one day, but not anytime soon IMO.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 4:28 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
perhaps these advancements are only possible with massive debt and either we developed too quickly or have gone beyond the peak of natural human development. yes, 2008 may be the peak of humanity
What shitty luck THAT would be to be living through the peak. Scary indeed.
quote:
you will find no person who promotes the development of our society than me. that doesn't mean that it is sustainable, or is not a function of debtloads that are not sustainable. or that it doesn't create its own societal issues
I view it kind of like the stock market. There will be peaks and troughs over the short term, but over the long haul society will continue to improve.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 4:34 pm to rintintin
quote:
If so, what type of events do you foresee causing such a cataclysmic collapse?
The world deciding that they will drop the dollar as the world reserve currency and then leaving us out of any trade alliances that are formed in the future. And if we threaten military actions, China, Russia and Iran form a military coilition to combat our threats.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 4:38 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i do too, but what do we do with the massive unemployment that will follow?
The transition will be tough for alot of people I think. Mainly low skilled, uneducated people. But we will adapt IMO.
I don't view employment, in it's most literal definition, as an essential part of society. Eventually we will get to a point, in the very far future, where employment in it's present sense will be viewed as a thing of the past. People will have more leisure time than ever before, and I think this era will produce the greatest advances to mankind.
This post was edited on 3/16/14 at 4:40 pm
Posted on 3/16/14 at 4:41 pm to rintintin
quote:
I don't view employment, in it's most literal definition, as an essential part of society. Eventually we will get to a point, in the very far future, where employment in it's present sense will be viewed as a thing of the past. People will have more leisure time than ever before, and I think this era will produce the greatest advances to mankind.
I think this will require massive govt subsidies.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 4:44 pm to Revelator
quote:
The world deciding that they will drop the dollar as the world reserve currency and then leaving us out of any trade alliances that are formed in the future. And if we threaten military actions, China, Russia and Iran form a military coilition to combat our threats.
I just don't see that happening anytime soon. The US dollar is the most valuable currency around the world. It is accepted EVERYWHERE. That's not something that's going to change overnight. As long as the US is the business hub of the world, the US dollar will reign supreme.
Even if it eventually fell through and was no longer the world reserve currency, I don't think it would cause as cataclysmic a collapse as is suggested in this thread.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 4:44 pm to rintintin
So a few people will make all th money and give it away?
Posted on 3/16/14 at 4:48 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
I think this will require massive govt subsidies.
Perhaps, but I don't think it is necessary.
Maybe once this becomes reality the govt as we know it today has evolved into something we just can't fathom right now. A "new" type of govt.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 4:53 pm to rintintin
quote:
Perhaps, but I don't think it is necessary.
Maybe once this becomes reality the govt as we know it today has evolved into something we just can't fathom right now. A "new" type of govt.
Well, I think that's fantasy. This may indeed happen but will not without some collapse of the current system. You'll have large number of people who will need to be supported, by someone.
This post was edited on 3/16/14 at 4:54 pm
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