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re: What has Israel done?

Posted on 10/10/23 at 12:38 pm to
Posted by wmr
North of Dickson, South of Herman's
Member since Mar 2009
32518 posts
Posted on 10/10/23 at 12:38 pm to
You don't understand what you're talking about.

The area now called "Israel" was barely occupied by any people practicing Judaism for the past 1800 years. There were more Christians there in the 200-600 AD than anything else, because most Jews in the region became Christians.

Then it was conquered by Muslims. Then European Christians conquered and lost it and reconquered it a few times in the Crusades.

Then Muslims owned it for a while, specifically the Turks.

Then Great Britain.

The history of the place is much more complex than most Dispy Scofield Christians understand.

There are tons of Greek ruins in Turkey and Syria dating back thousands of years. If the United States started sponsoring and arming Greek settlers to take back what "rightfully belongs to the Greeks" you might see some pushback from the Turks who have lived in those areas the past 800 years or so.





Posted by riccoar
Arkansas
Member since Mar 2006
5100 posts
Posted on 10/10/23 at 12:42 pm to
So what you were saying there is simple. No Arab state of Palestine ever existed. Glad you finally made that realization.
Posted by gothamdawg
NYC
Member since Nov 2015
1392 posts
Posted on 10/10/23 at 12:55 pm to
quote:


What has Israel done?
There has never been a Palestine.


And there was never an Israel either.
This is Post British colonial issue.

There's a reason they existed peacefully prior to 1948.

Zionism (not Judaism) is the reason why we have this conflict now. Not saying this is why Hamas attacked, but the core conflict revolves around the what the Palestinians perceive as a land grab.
Posted by gothamdawg
NYC
Member since Nov 2015
1392 posts
Posted on 10/10/23 at 1:02 pm to
quote:

There has never been a Palestine.

Its funny that Golda Mier seems to disagree

Golda Mier had a Palestinian passport prior to 1948
Posted by beachdude
FL
Member since Nov 2008
6476 posts
Posted on 10/10/23 at 1:14 pm to
quote:

There’s a reason they existed peacefully before 1948.


There was bloodshed between the groups all during the 1930s, specifically the year 1936.
Posted by LSUbest
Coastal Plain
Member since Aug 2007
16264 posts
Posted on 10/10/23 at 1:21 pm to
Posted by Boodis Man
Member since Sep 2020
8368 posts
Posted on 10/10/23 at 4:00 pm to
Kicked the Palestinians out of their homes, took the land, and ran them off into an open air prison known as Gaza which the Israelis control and have the residents living in misery.

Also killed thousands and thousands of Palestine clivilians who are completely outmatched against the israeli high tech military equipment.

This isn’t good vs evil. Evil vs evil as far as I’m concerned
This post was edited on 10/10/23 at 4:01 pm
Posted by memphisplaya
Member since Jan 2009
87208 posts
Posted on 10/10/23 at 4:53 pm to
There is so much more but Israel has done plenty to drive up hatred. They aren’t innocent, but it doesn’t condone what Hamas has done or did a few days ago. That was the work of subhuman beasts.

In 1982 Israel invaded Lebanon to drive out Yasar Arafat

according to Lebanese sources, between 15,000 and 20,000 people were killed, mostly civilians.

The Palestinian leader and his fighters were sent to various Arab countries in an agreement hammered out with the help of several nations. According to the agreement, the US would guarantee the safety of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon. Shortly after the PLO’s departure, the slaughter of more than 2,200 refugees in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps in Beirut took place under the nose of the Israeli occupation forces.

1987 Muslim Brotherhood starts Hamas

1988 the PLO’s Palestinian National Council declared the independent state of Palestine, with Jerusalem as its capital.

On going conflict would occur despite Yasar Arafat addressing that the PLO needed to accept that Israel has a right to exist.

Oslo Accords in 1993. They agreed that Israel would grant the Palestinians limited territorial sovereignty and partial control over civil affairs in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

They also established the Palestinian Authority (PA) with Arafat as its president.

In October 2004 Arafat falls ill and dies on November 3rd from what was reported as a massive hemorrhagic stroke, but no autopsy was carried out and senior Palestinian leaders withheld his medical records.

Swiss scientists who conducted tests on samples taken from Yasser Arafat’s body have found at least 18 times the normal levels of radioactive polonium in his remains. The scientists said that they were confident up to an 83 percent level that the late Palestinian leader was poisoned with it, which they said “moderately supports” polonium as the cause of his death.



In 2007 Israel installed a land/sea/air blockade of the Gaza Strip including Eastern Jerusalem. In 2007, 2008, and 2021 Israel has killed thousands including 350 children In the 07 attack on Gaza

Running concurrently, Hamas’ security forces have also committed grave abuses against civilians in Gaza, including arbitrary arrests, summary executions and torture. Extreme violations of human rights, terrorism, and outright inhuman behavior. They’re animals, and not a dog backed into a corner.

Israel has captured and tortured Palestinian journalists, and this year alone Israel has killed more than 200 Palestinians. No idea if they were related to security issues dealing with Hamas.

Posted by Chicken
Jackassistan
Member since Aug 2003
27462 posts
Posted on 10/10/23 at 4:54 pm to
Why does your timeline only go back to 1982?
This post was edited on 10/10/23 at 4:55 pm
Posted by memphisplaya
Member since Jan 2009
87208 posts
Posted on 10/10/23 at 5:00 pm to
quote:

Why does your timeline only go back to 1982


Because that’s when Israel full scale invaded Lebanon. They had prior skirmishes leading up including a large one In 1977. There was plenty of incidents and treaties prior but I focused on what the OP said.

It’s a lesser known fact since everyone focuses on Gaza Strip, Palestine, Israel and the OP question was “what has Israel done?”

My timeline is to show neither side have clean hands by any means. Both have contributed In mass to genocide and violence.
This post was edited on 10/10/23 at 5:02 pm
Posted by Chicken
Jackassistan
Member since Aug 2003
27462 posts
Posted on 10/10/23 at 5:02 pm to
Why did they invade Lebanon?
Posted by memphisplaya
Member since Jan 2009
87208 posts
Posted on 10/10/23 at 5:15 pm to
Well the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) recruited militants In lebanon That had been forced out by the 1948 creation of Israel. Which would lead to a reported attempted assassination on Israeli ambassador In London.

What happened after the conflict concluded however is why so many In the Area hold hatred to Israel gov to this day.

While the original plan called for Israeli troops to undertake a 25-mile incursion to wipe out PLO positions in Southern Lebanon, Israeli troops on the ground quickly overran PLO positions, destroyed Syrian installations in the Bekaa Valley, and reached Beirut by June 9. After battles in West Beirut, the PLO surrendered and agreed to evacuate to Tunisia in September.

quote:

On September 16, Defense Minister Ariel Sharon and Chief of Staff Rafael Eitan permitted Israel’s Lebanese allies, the Christian Phalangist forces, to enter the Palestinian refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila with the purpose of rooting out remaining PLO forces who had evaded evacuation. The Phalangists, however, brutally massacred Palestinian civilians in the camp. Many Israelis were horrified by the incident, and on September 24, 400,000 gathered in Tel Aviv at the first of many demonstrations to protest the Lebanon War. The Government-appointed Kahan Commission released its report in February 1983 finding Sharon “indirectly responsible,” and concluded that given the well-known Phalangist hatred of the Palestinians, he should have anticipated that they “were liable to commit atrocities.” Sharon resigned as defense minister.
Posted by SECSolomonGrundy
Slaughter Swamp
Member since Jun 2012
18305 posts
Posted on 10/10/23 at 5:27 pm to
quote:

There is so much more but Israel has done plenty to drive up hatred. They aren’t innocent, but it doesn’t condone what Hamas has done or did a few days ago. That was the work of subhuman beasts.



Agreed. This is a complicated geo-political mess. Both sides want to present it as simple and that they are victims but it goes much deeper than that.

The british empire decided to plant the refugee holocaust jews in that area around 1948. At the time the area was known as Palestine and it was inhabited by muslims, christians, and a very small amount of jews. As the jews moved in they eventually decided they wanted their own government and they formed an Israeli government. That government was made up of Holocaust survivors and their children. They were not fricking around.

But, they were still the new kids on the block. They pissed off their neighbors too. Golda Meir had nukes ready to blow up Cairo and Demascus.

But one of the biggest problems is both sides view the other as subhuman. They have all grown up being told the other side is scum, and they've treated each other as such.

It's a complex situation but the relevant history goes back a little more than 100 years. The Bible aint got shite to do with it.

Armies have been fighting over that land for a very very long time. But this current government was propped up by the British Empire because Lord Lionel Rothchild was highly influential at the time.

Anybody believing the jews have some dominant claim to the land because they were there in the Bible times needs a reality check. What if a world superpower came to America and said the native americans were on this land thousands of years ago, so all you people who have only been here for hundreds of years have to go. Some people might find that fair and righteous, but others would be pissed.
This post was edited on 10/10/23 at 5:28 pm
Posted by Robcrzy
Mandeville
Member since Nov 2007
1326 posts
Posted on 10/13/23 at 11:59 am to
Yep and the left is to stupid to realize in each situation the good guys are Israel and the Indians
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