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re: What economic system takes care of the middle class best?

Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:07 pm to
Posted by Pettifogger
I don't really care, Margaret
Member since Feb 2012
85873 posts
Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:07 pm to
quote:

Like Greece?



You need an industrious/productive people to make it work, most likely. Greece probably doesn't fit that bill, and was plagued with corruption and other ills well before the financial crisis. And of course, they felt impacts from the migrant crisis and other erosions that killed off social democracy in Europe.

I'm by no means a socdem advocate, but I do think it has viability for smallish states with all the right characteristics (and if so, would be quite attractive to almost everyone).

Posted by JackieTreehorn
Member since Sep 2013
34832 posts
Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:07 pm to
Our poor still have iPhones and several pairs of brand new air Jordan’s.
This post was edited on 3/7/22 at 8:08 pm
Posted by Pettifogger
I don't really care, Margaret
Member since Feb 2012
85873 posts
Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:12 pm to
quote:

Will there be a superpower sugar daddy that allows your country to spend nothing on defense because it's got you covered?



You play the cards you're dealt
Posted by TeLeFaWx
Dallas, TX
Member since Aug 2011
29311 posts
Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:14 pm to
I’d say the Nordic welfare state countries immediately after transitioning from a very very capitalist society. There is a blissful period that undeniably works in many many ways. Long term it creates a lot of problems but I think the evidence is that what they did absolutely helps the middle class short term.
Posted by Diamondawg
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2006
37039 posts
Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:21 pm to
quote:

You need an industrious/productive people to make it work, most likely.
So you would have to kill off half of all Americans to make it work (and you know what half I mean). But, that would eliminate the middle class altogether, or at least redefine it.
Posted by Pettifogger
I don't really care, Margaret
Member since Feb 2012
85873 posts
Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:23 pm to
quote:

So you would have to kill off half of all Americans to make it work (and you know what half I mean). But, that would eliminate the middle class altogether, or at least redefine it.



Yeah I mean by external standards you'd probably be gunning for a small class of elites, a large "middle" class that is upper middle/upper by most of the world's standards, and a small lower class living to middle class standards due to a robust safety net.

It's certainly not possible in the US or any country of size.
Posted by LRB1967
Tennessee
Member since Dec 2020
22898 posts
Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:38 pm to
Laissez faire is the only fair.
Posted by ItNeverRains
Offugeaux
Member since Oct 2007
28166 posts
Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:40 pm to
The only system that allows for a middle class to even exist?
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
62534 posts
Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:42 pm to
quote:

You can probably make a good case for homogeneous European-style social democracy

Will there be a superpower sugar daddy that allows your country to spend nothing on defense because it's got you covered?
It's not just defense we subsidize.

My favorite thing is when socialists say "Well Cuba and Venezuela can't succeed because the US has sanctions and they can't trade with US." to which I always reply "so, you're saying that socialism can't succeed without capitalism to provide basic goods and services?" I usually get called a racist right about that time.
This post was edited on 3/7/22 at 8:46 pm
Posted by DirkMerlinz
Member since May 2013
27 posts
Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:51 pm to
Equal opportunity != equal outcomes
Posted by deltaland
Member since Mar 2011
100323 posts
Posted on 3/7/22 at 9:10 pm to
Capitalism takes care of the talented and hard working and rewards them while offering opportunities albeit limited ones to the less talented who can move up if they try hard and make the right decisions but many do not. It rewards and punishes people based on their actions, decisions, and to an extent natural abilities.

Socialism believes the wealthy are privileged and working class is oppressed and seeks to take from those who have and give the basic needs to the lower classes. It is intended to be good but it goes against the natural order and what happens is the poor stay poor and have little incentive to try to do better. You end up with a larger wealth gap in the long run

Communism is where there is no private ownership of business or property. Everything is run by the state and everyone is pretty much poor except the political class
Posted by WhereisAtlanta
Member since Jun 2016
847 posts
Posted on 3/7/22 at 9:24 pm to
quote:

Hint, when the poor in America are among the richest in the world, that should also factor into your equation.


The US is not a capitalist nation.
Posted by rantfan
new iberia la
Member since Nov 2012
14110 posts
Posted on 3/7/22 at 9:26 pm to
Capitalism - government needs to get out of the way
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
72082 posts
Posted on 3/7/22 at 9:28 pm to
This is a trick question. Capitalism is the only system in which a middle class even exists.
Posted by CGSC Lobotomy
Member since Sep 2011
81611 posts
Posted on 3/7/22 at 9:29 pm to
The one that doesn't drive up inflation a million percent in one year and then blames it on its predecessor.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
62534 posts
Posted on 3/7/22 at 9:32 pm to
quote:

That’s not really what I’m in search of with this topic. Not everyone can be as talented or motivated as the next guy. There’s plenty of people in this country with less of both that have made more given less opportunities. I don’t believe one should need to be anything spectacular in order to achieve middle class.
Yeah. That's paternalism, you're looking for. No economic system can provide it, because it only works with "other people's money". The only good system for that is having rich parents that will support you life-long.

quote:

taking an average Joe, all things equal, and seeing which enable him to reach middle class.
That takes opportunity.

Those things are not interchangeable.
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