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re: What economic system takes care of the middle class best?
Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:07 pm to Diamondawg
Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:07 pm to Diamondawg
quote:
Like Greece?
You need an industrious/productive people to make it work, most likely. Greece probably doesn't fit that bill, and was plagued with corruption and other ills well before the financial crisis. And of course, they felt impacts from the migrant crisis and other erosions that killed off social democracy in Europe.
I'm by no means a socdem advocate, but I do think it has viability for smallish states with all the right characteristics (and if so, would be quite attractive to almost everyone).
Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:07 pm to NotoriousFSU
Our poor still have iPhones and several pairs of brand new air Jordan’s.
This post was edited on 3/7/22 at 8:08 pm
Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:12 pm to udtiger
quote:
Will there be a superpower sugar daddy that allows your country to spend nothing on defense because it's got you covered?
You play the cards you're dealt
Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:14 pm to NotoriousFSU
I’d say the Nordic welfare state countries immediately after transitioning from a very very capitalist society. There is a blissful period that undeniably works in many many ways. Long term it creates a lot of problems but I think the evidence is that what they did absolutely helps the middle class short term.
Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:21 pm to Pettifogger
quote:So you would have to kill off half of all Americans to make it work (and you know what half I mean). But, that would eliminate the middle class altogether, or at least redefine it.
You need an industrious/productive people to make it work, most likely.
Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:23 pm to Diamondawg
quote:
So you would have to kill off half of all Americans to make it work (and you know what half I mean). But, that would eliminate the middle class altogether, or at least redefine it.
Yeah I mean by external standards you'd probably be gunning for a small class of elites, a large "middle" class that is upper middle/upper by most of the world's standards, and a small lower class living to middle class standards due to a robust safety net.
It's certainly not possible in the US or any country of size.
Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:38 pm to NotoriousFSU
Laissez faire is the only fair.
Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:40 pm to NotoriousFSU
The only system that allows for a middle class to even exist?
Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:42 pm to udtiger
quote:It's not just defense we subsidize.
You can probably make a good case for homogeneous European-style social democracy
Will there be a superpower sugar daddy that allows your country to spend nothing on defense because it's got you covered?
My favorite thing is when socialists say "Well Cuba and Venezuela can't succeed because the US has sanctions and they can't trade with US." to which I always reply "so, you're saying that socialism can't succeed without capitalism to provide basic goods and services?" I usually get called a racist right about that time.
This post was edited on 3/7/22 at 8:46 pm
Posted on 3/7/22 at 8:51 pm to NotoriousFSU
Equal opportunity != equal outcomes
Posted on 3/7/22 at 9:10 pm to NotoriousFSU
Capitalism takes care of the talented and hard working and rewards them while offering opportunities albeit limited ones to the less talented who can move up if they try hard and make the right decisions but many do not. It rewards and punishes people based on their actions, decisions, and to an extent natural abilities.
Socialism believes the wealthy are privileged and working class is oppressed and seeks to take from those who have and give the basic needs to the lower classes. It is intended to be good but it goes against the natural order and what happens is the poor stay poor and have little incentive to try to do better. You end up with a larger wealth gap in the long run
Communism is where there is no private ownership of business or property. Everything is run by the state and everyone is pretty much poor except the political class
Socialism believes the wealthy are privileged and working class is oppressed and seeks to take from those who have and give the basic needs to the lower classes. It is intended to be good but it goes against the natural order and what happens is the poor stay poor and have little incentive to try to do better. You end up with a larger wealth gap in the long run
Communism is where there is no private ownership of business or property. Everything is run by the state and everyone is pretty much poor except the political class
Posted on 3/7/22 at 9:24 pm to Reservoir Ag
quote:
Hint, when the poor in America are among the richest in the world, that should also factor into your equation.
The US is not a capitalist nation.
Posted on 3/7/22 at 9:26 pm to Rainy Day
Capitalism - government needs to get out of the way
Posted on 3/7/22 at 9:28 pm to NotoriousFSU
This is a trick question. Capitalism is the only system in which a middle class even exists.
Posted on 3/7/22 at 9:29 pm to NotoriousFSU
The one that doesn't drive up inflation a million percent in one year and then blames it on its predecessor.
Posted on 3/7/22 at 9:32 pm to NotoriousFSU
quote:Yeah. That's paternalism, you're looking for. No economic system can provide it, because it only works with "other people's money". The only good system for that is having rich parents that will support you life-long.
That’s not really what I’m in search of with this topic. Not everyone can be as talented or motivated as the next guy. There’s plenty of people in this country with less of both that have made more given less opportunities. I don’t believe one should need to be anything spectacular in order to achieve middle class.
quote:That takes opportunity.
taking an average Joe, all things equal, and seeing which enable him to reach middle class.
Those things are not interchangeable.
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