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Started By
Message
re: War On Drugs: Let's get a better understanding/conclusion. Part 1: Supply Side
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:42 pm to montanagator
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:42 pm to montanagator
quote:
Chicago had a higher murder rate during prohibition than it does today.
Not only a higher murder rate. They had more murders
0
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:43 pm to MButterfly
quote:
Drive up cost? You mean poor people won't be able to afford the illegal drugs that plague their neighborhoods and cities?
I know you're trolling, but surely you're not this retarded, right?
The more supply you destroy, the more the price increases for the product as demand remains the same. This only gives cartels more incentive to get their supply into the US. Maybe you should sit in on a high school economics class.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:44 pm to MButterfly
quote:
Supply Side
This is more than just the "Cartel". It's broken down into various levels:
1- Grower/manufacturers.
2- Moving the product.
3- Major dealers (king Pin)
4- Sub level distributors. (local gangs/ members/ pushers)
In order to win that, you need to isolate them working from the US side tracking back to the origin.
You have to start from within. Forget the Cartel, the growers, manufacturers,etc. Start with the CIA-They have been tied to drugs for decades.
quote:
- Build the wall. While in itself is not the end all, it is the major problem because it handles 2 issues. The transportation of the drugs, and the movement of troops into the US. I say Troops because of the terminology used "War on Drugs"
- Man the wall. We train soldiers every day. Rotate the National Guard of every state to that border wall. That's man power, training, and it changes out the people enough that it reduces the chances of being compromised by cartel dollars. We have 50 states with national guard and 48 of those could easily be rotated out.
- Use modern tech to patrol that wall. In other words, use small drones in a pattern that changes daily.
- Use modern Tech to detect tunnels before they are completed. It's out there., we can do it.
Those things alone will reduce the flow drastically!
- Cargo ships need to be inspected better. Use the method above to do that work.
TOO MUCH MONEY!!!. This wont work. We are already spending bilions if not trillions of dollars "fighting" this war, now you want to add to that?
There are tunnels from Mexico to California and other parts of the US,we dont even know about. Your wall solves nothing.
quote:
- Use trade as a negotiation with Mexico and others. Either we trade and you allow us to take out the production or we don't trade at all.
- Use other forms of negotiation. Restrict LEGAL immigration if they do not cooperate.
- Label all cartels terrorist organizations!
It allows the US military more leverage in the fight.
- Take out the leadership every month. It takes time to regain control of the Cartel. Just take them out.
- We know of a production center... blow it up.
You are assuming the Mexican govt is behind this. So you are going to end trade on something they allegedly control? Their entire police force is paid in pennies so they are about as crooked as a tree branch.
We are spending billions of dollars on a war in the ME, now you want to start another in Mexico? We are policing the world enough as it is.
quote:
3/4- That moves us to the US side of things and we have created a mess.
- If you are in our Jails and you are a member of a gang, deport them NOW.
- Label gangs as Terrorist organization and bring in federal help.
- Add 3000 more judges. Deport new arrests within days.
- Get rid of the PC that states we must make prison life for these people friendly. This means you don't get my tax dollars to EAT or live. You get to work for the rest of your life to raise your own food, cook it, and clean up.
- Get rid of PC.... You kill somebody and it's drug related and gang related, you no longer get to be a burden. Either die, or life with out my tax dollars. You don't get air conditioning. You don't get TV. You don't get Cable. You don't get free food. You become a productive human being be selling things you are forced to make in prison.
- Schools need to be guarded. Place NG on every corner! Each state has enough to do this.
Start with the CIA.
I agree with deportation but they will be right back because the Cartel has its fingers in every aspect of this country from Wal Mart to home builders.
NG at the schools? Where are we going to get the personnel for this? Are we going to start signing Messicans?
End the war on drugs with a simple thing thats been mentioned before. 100% legalization of all drugs across the board. The value of narcotics drops to pennies. Its not sought out any longer. We save trillions of dollars that can be better spent on education and rehabilitation as well as infrastructure. The Cartel now has billions in cash that they have to spend because they arent getting anymore. Mexico flourishes as do we.
The end.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:46 pm to MButterfly
quote:
Add 3000 more judges. Deport new arrests within days
Let's do a quick cost estimate on this and let's unrealistically remove any infrastructure, training or support costs, just go straight salary- a quick search places the average salary of federal judge at 200k or so depending on appointment let's cut that to 100k (unrealistic but go with it) -
3,000*100,000 = 300,000,000
Three Hundred Million in salary alone-- and that's an annual cost not a one time injection of cash.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:49 pm to montanagator
I'd like to see the cost estimate to deploy one NG detatchment then multiply that by 48 as he proposed. That's gotta be a fun number to see. Again, an annual cost.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:49 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
So basically extorting people with their own money.
Not a good solution, but far better than wasting so much money on fighting the war on drugs the same way we have been for years.
Also, don't we already extort? What happens if you don't pay property taxes?
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:49 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
Who do you see becoming the Miller-Coors of heroin manufacturing and distribution?
Big Ag would love to step in. If this was 20 years ago Tobacco would have jumped on this in a heartbeat.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:50 pm to montanagator
quote:
Three Hundred Million in salary alone-- and that's an annual cost not a one time injection of cash.
If it saves just one life ...
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:53 pm to MButterfly
for about the same amount of trouble, you can apply for a real job with an agency whose tasks include all that.
opm.gov
usajobs.gov
I have this feeling you would enjoy Homeland Security. look at the grade 15 analyst job task list.
opm.gov
usajobs.gov
I have this feeling you would enjoy Homeland Security. look at the grade 15 analyst job task list.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:54 pm to MButterfly
You realize decriminalization isn't a novel idea. It's already been done 15 years ago in Portugal and it worked.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 2:57 pm to MButterfly
quote:
Drive up cost? You mean poor people won't be able to afford the illegal drugs that plague their neighborhoods and cities?
the NPR article i posted had a good example of this for you.
quote:
To make, for instance, a kilo of cocaine, you need about a ton of coca leaf, and that ton, once it's all dried out, in a country like Colombia will fetch perhaps $400. Now, the kilo of the United States will fetch about $100,000. So let's say you're incredibly successful in managing to raise the price of coca leaf, and you manage to double it, to $800. If you then manage to transfer all of that extra cost onto the consumer, that final kilo of cocaine is only going to cost now $100,400. In other words, you can double the price of coca leaf and you increase the price of the final product, cocaine, by less than 1 percent. ... We're putting all this effort into raising the price of coca leaf, when in fact that's only a small part of the cost of the final product.
Hitting the supply is like trying to raise the price of a house by making screws and nails more expensive. The cost isn't in the raw materials.
This post was edited on 4/19/17 at 2:58 pm
Posted on 4/19/17 at 3:00 pm to MButterfly
quote:
No it's not. You are prohibited from murder, yet we are not changing the law...
Posted on 4/19/17 at 3:04 pm to MButterfly
quote:
I know we disagree... but thanks for at least address the content.
quote:
Ok.. Starting point would be to ??
Give me your better strategy for that. That being co=operation from Mexico.
Joint operations with Mexico? Work with them, don't use a threat of trade sanctions to try to bring them to heal.
quote:
I need a little more information with that.
I want Cartel drug locations blown up.
Imagine if El Chapo were still on the lose and the Mexican authorities got good intelligence that he was held up in a duplex in Tuscon. Would you be ok if Mexico sent a drone with a hellfire attached and leveled that duplex in Tuscon? How exactly do you want our country to blow things up in Mexico?
quote:
I addressed the returning. If you are shooting people, then you simply are in jail and hard labor.
So low level criminal are sent back and cut loose but violent criminals are kept here and kept in prison? Got ya. I'm down with that.
quote:
It's not really about making it as miserable for them as we can. It's about not driving up the cost for the comfort for these people. I'm not trying to rehabilitate them. I'm trying to keep the American people from paying for them.
We are going to have to agree to disagree I guess. The overwhelming majority of people in prison aren't there for life. I think it's smarter to spend money on things that make it less likely they return to prison once they are let out. Your plan does nothing and will most likely make the problem worse.
quote:
Are you suggesting that smaller schools are not easier to manage? Help me understand why.
Smaller class sizes help more than smaller schools but both are irrelevant to the drug problem. Schools are remarkably safe these days. A child's chances of being seriously harmed at school are way less than we they aren't there.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 3:08 pm to mindbreaker
quote:
mindbreaker
Best reply yet!
Thank you!
quote:
quote:
- Man the wall. We train soldiers every day. Rotate the National Guard of every state to that border wall. That's man power, training, and it changes out the people enough that it reduces the chances of being compromised by cartel dollars. We have 50 states with national guard and 48 of those could easily be rotated out.
Costs a lot of money
We already spend money to have these guys go train 1 time per month plus 2 solid weeks.
-You'll train (also called “drill”) one weekend per month plus a two-week period each year. There are 350K National Guard to rotate
LINK
quote:
quote:
Use modern tech to patrol that wall. In other words, use small drones in a pattern that changes daily. - Use modern Tech to detect tunnels before they are completed. It's out there., we can do it. Those things alone will reduce the flow drastically! - Cargo ships need to be inspected better. Use the method above to do that work.
all this costs a shitton of money
We already fly some drones on the border. Cost will be to add a few more.
Using things like cameras will not increase anything. It's training for the Guard. The wall will have monitoring stations paid for by Wind and Solar panels.
The cost of extra drones is more than offset by the burden on the system from illegals within the country.
quote:
Have you lost your damn mind? Our allies would turn on us in a second if we did this. We are the biggest player on the world stage. We don't want to make this statement. Also this is pretty much war and war costs money
What part... You quoted a lot.
1- If we are doing everything with the consent of a country.. There is no problem.
2- We are allowed to restrict immigration. It's our country.
So again. this one I need you to break down what you feel is going to get us in trouble with the world at large.
quote:
quote:
Label gangs as Terrorist organization and bring in federal help.
more money
It doesn't cost anything to label them that.
We pay 350K National guardsmen. Why not allow them to keep school zones safe? It will not cost more money since they are already being paid.
quote:
quote:
Add 3000 more judges. Deport new arrests within days.
more money
Would be short term to get the numbers under controlled and offset by the reduced strain on our system.
quote:
quote:
Get rid of the PC that states we must make prison life for these people friendly. This means you don't get my tax dollars to EAT or live. You get to work for the rest of your life to raise your own food, cook it, and clean up.
You realize most prisons are privatized now we really don't have a say in this anymore and it would never fly with the American public. Because not everyone is in jail for the problem you are trying to fix.
Privatized and paid for by?
This is why I said the PC culture needs to change. I do realize that they are not in there for the same things. I don't see the problem.
quote:
quote:
Either die, or life with out my tax dollars
Wrongful convictions makes this so much fail. So someone is set up and found later to be not guilty screw them for being in the wrong place. oopsy price of doing business. You are mental
I think you are starting to cross over into personal attacks, but the fact is you misread what was stated. I included you can live, but not on my tax dollars.
That's means.. grow your own food. Natural energy for the bare necessities.
quote:
quote:
- Schools need to be guarded. Place NG on every corner! Each state has enough to do this.
NG is part time this costs money
Again, how does it cost more when it's the same time. Just not spent in the woods.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 3:18 pm to MButterfly
Great band!
Posted on 4/19/17 at 3:19 pm to montanagator
quote:
3,000*100,000 = 300,000,000
Three Hundred Million in salary alone-- and that's an annual cost not a one time injection of cash
But but Madame butterfly said it wouldn't cost any more money. So she doesn't mind spending money on ramping up the war on drugs by massive amounts but hell no on any rehabs or education. Completely delusional and retarded.
Posted on 4/19/17 at 3:33 pm to bencoleman
quote:
Completely delusional and retarded.
It is. The more money you push on helping the war on drugs, the more powerful the Cartels become.Apple didnt die because Steve Jobs died, so getting rid of the Cartel does nothing. The price of drugs goes up but no matter how much it climbs the users will find a way to get it. We created this epidemic and are working hand in hand with the cartels. We are both profiting from this war.
Any sane person knows to end the war for good, legalization is the bottom line. Thats it. Albert Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing the same thinsg over and over and expecting a different result. OP How you feeling?
This post was edited on 4/19/17 at 3:35 pm
Posted on 4/19/17 at 3:36 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
Prohibition is typically a failed solution
Wrong (or at a minimum, misinformed)
Actually prohibition was a success
Posted on 4/19/17 at 3:40 pm to a want
True! Posted on 4/19/17 at 4:03 pm to BigJim
quote:
Wrong (or at a minimum, misinformed)
Actually prohibition was a success
That article outlines exactly why it wont work. They had no stance on how to make it work. Just fluff. It was so successful we legalized alcohol and states are slowly legalizing MJ.
Why werent people in possession of alcohol during prohibition sent to rot in prison? Thats the biggest BS going right now on the WOD.
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