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Started By
Message
re: U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Upholds Ban On U.S. Flag Shirts
Posted on 9/30/14 at 6:35 pm to Vegas Bengal
Posted on 9/30/14 at 6:35 pm to Vegas Bengal
quote:hmmm.......
"Son, sometimes authority figures screw you over and you just have to take it. It builds character."
0
Posted on 9/30/14 at 6:40 pm to the808bass
quote:
California doesn't wish to regulate free speech in the schools based on the legislation I linked.
The law you linked operates in conjunction with section 48907 which states:
quote:
48907. (a) Pupils of the public schools, including charter schools, shall have the right to exercise freedom of speech and of the press including, but not limited to, the use of bulletin boards, the distribution of printed materials or petitions, the wearing of buttons, badges, and other insignia, and the right of expression in official publications, whether or not the publications or other means of expression are supported financially by the school or by use of school facilities, except that expression shall be prohibited which is obscene, libelous, or slanderous. Also prohibited shall be material that so incites pupils as to create a clear and present danger of the commission of unlawful acts on school premises or the violation of lawful school regulations, or the substantial disruption of the orderly operation of the school.
This is essentially the language of Tinker written into law.
This post was edited on 9/30/14 at 6:42 pm
Posted on 9/30/14 at 6:48 pm to bgator85
It's ludicrous to seriously consider an American flag as speech which incites. We both know that. Right?
Posted on 9/30/14 at 6:50 pm to the808bass
SO let me see if I have this right, 365 days a year some student could burn that flag, but on certain days you can't wear it?
Posted on 9/30/14 at 6:52 pm to the808bass
I agree but "the substantial disruption of the orderly operation of the school" is the catchall. This is language used over and over again in these cases.
Posted on 9/30/14 at 6:53 pm to SirWinston
quote:I like where your head's at.
Better yet would be a "dos a cero" shirt
Posted on 9/30/14 at 6:53 pm to Pettifogger
quote:MMkay.
Sure, in a different dynamic where the "mob" is actually a small minority of students that can be easily identified. But, if the school is predominantly Hispanic and we're talking about 25 flag wearers against 500 potentially hostile Cinco De Mayo students, it makes a lot more sense for the school to address the smaller group.
If a school of mostly white people said they were going to whip the arse of the tiny group of blacks wearing a MLK shirt to school, one wonders how the 9th would've ruled.
No. I kid. One really doesn't have to wonder.
Posted on 9/30/14 at 6:53 pm to Jbird
quote:
SO let me see if I have this right, 365 days a year some student could burn that flag, but on certain days you can't wear it?
Upvote.
Posted on 9/30/14 at 6:55 pm to cwill
quote:
This incident is so poorly understood and misrepresented in that article. There is no active ongoing ban. The very few kids that were wearing the shirt were sent home to avoid violence in that moment. Great decision? Debatable, but the mischaracterization of the affair is ridiculous
I get your point but had it been a few black kids sent home for wearing MLK shirts, the school would've been sued out of its ever loving mind and the media would've acted like the white kids threatening the black kids were just this side of being part of ISIS.
So, the coverage hasn't exactly been straight forward.
Posted on 9/30/14 at 6:55 pm to DawgfaninCa
Posted on 9/30/14 at 7:48 pm to Sentrius
shite...Mark Levin was all over this a couple of weeks ago.
Posted on 9/30/14 at 7:58 pm to Sentrius
So because some illegal aliens might act out like fools, another's political speech has to be curtailed?
Posted on 9/30/14 at 8:58 pm to SirWinston
quote:
"dos a cero"
Posted on 9/30/14 at 10:07 pm to Sentrius
Let's try something drastic. Something like schools not celebrating any other country's holidays or celebrations.
Does Cinco De Mayo have anything to do with the US?
Does Cinco De Mayo have anything to do with the US?
Posted on 9/30/14 at 10:33 pm to Jake88
quote:
So because some illegal aliens might act out like fools, another's political speech has to be curtailed?
It looks like an on going problem between white and Mexican students but only on this day was it a problem with the flag. Some background from the court documents
quote:
Live Oak had a history of violence among students, some
gang-related and some drawn along racial lines. In the six
years that Nick Boden served as principal, he observed at
least thirty fights on campus, both between gangs and
between Caucasian and Hispanic students. A police officer is
stationed on campus every day to ensure safety on school
grounds.
On Cinco de Mayo in 2009, a year before the events
relevant to this appeal, there was an altercation on campus
between a group of predominantlyCaucasian students and a
group of Mexican students.The groups exchanged
profanities and threats. Some students hung a makeshift
American flag on one of the trees on campus, and as they did,
the group of Caucasian students began clapping and chanting
“USA.” A group of Mexican students had been walking
around with the Mexican flag, and in response to the white
students’ flag-raising, one Mexican student shouted “f***
them white boys, f*** them white boys.” When Assistant
Principal Miguel Rodriguez told the student to stop using
profane language, the student said, “But Rodriguez, they are
racist. They are being racist. F*** them white boys. Let’s
f*** them up.” Rodriguez removed the student from the area.
It doesn't even look like they banned all flag apparel. Obviously I can't tell from text whats OK and whats not OK.
quote:
For another, officials did not enforce a blanket ban on American flag apparel, but instead allowed two students to return to class when it became clear that their shirts were unlikely to make them targets of violence. The school distinguished among the students based on the perceived threat level, and did not embargo all flag-related clothing.
After reading the courts opinion I can't disagree with the schools reasoning or the courts opinion.
You don't have freedom of speech in schools. The American flag is no exception. The ruling is consistent with previous ruling.
Before you guys start down voting the hell out of me, please imagine the result of stripping schools of this authority.
Posted on 9/30/14 at 10:35 pm to Socratics
quote:
Before you guys start down voting the hell out of me, please imagine the result of stripping schools of this authority.
Yes, but the schools should have used that authority to punish and sanction the ones making the threats to the students wearing the American flags. Not the students exercising their free speech.
Eta: down voted like a mofo
This post was edited on 9/30/14 at 10:36 pm
Posted on 9/30/14 at 10:41 pm to the808bass
quote:
Yes, but the schools should have used that authority to punish and sanction the ones making the threats to the students wearing the American flags. Not the students exercising their free speech.
The Student who made the threats were punished. What dumbass sends threats via text message and expects not to get caught?
Students never had free speech period
This post was edited on 9/30/14 at 10:45 pm
Posted on 9/30/14 at 10:46 pm to darkhorse
quote:
Does Cinco De Mayo have anything to do with the US?
It was celebrated by people of Mexican ancestry living in California for some time, in a relatively low-key fashion. It really became a big deal in the post WWII period, when beer companies wanted to promote a Spring time drinking holiday between Easter and Memorial Day. And, over time, it has become more of an unofficial National Holiday for latinos, nationwide.
It has spread into Mexico, but is not nearly as popular as it is in the U.S., particularly in the Southwest.
It is a made up, completely commercial holiday that has nothing to do with U.S. history, culture or traditions.
This post was edited on 9/30/14 at 10:47 pm
Posted on 10/1/14 at 7:12 am to Socratics
quote:I'm just trying to imagine the reaction of the left if the schools went this exact same route after a bunch of white students were threatening black students. Somehow, I highly doubt that a white principal telling the black kids to just stop wearing the shite that pisses off whites wouldn't go too well for the white principal.
After reading the courts opinion I can't disagree with the schools reasoning or the courts opinion.
You don't have freedom of speech in schools. The American flag is no exception. The ruling is consistent with previous ruling.
Before you guys start down voting the hell out of me, please imagine the result of stripping schools of this authority.
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