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Started By
Message
re: U.S. and Israel reach joint plan to counter Iran
Posted on 12/28/17 at 9:19 pm to CajunSoldier225
Posted on 12/28/17 at 9:19 pm to CajunSoldier225
quote:
They didn’t just pop smoke and exfil to their 6.
1
Posted on 12/28/17 at 9:26 pm to ABearsFanNMS
quote:
I would submit the IDF had no real plan. It was a true knee jerk reaction that ended with egg all over their faces.
Agreed, top to bottom.
I would also point a finger at Halutz though. Like every air power advocate ever, he grossly overestimated the effectiveness of the IAF, and underestimated the importance of ground forces.
Other points worth mentioning.... terrible intelligence, they had no idea what Hezbollah had become, or just how substantial those defenses were.
They, as you note, went in light initially rather than respond with overwhelming force.
And then it turned into Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby when they did ante up.
Also, how many times did they declare Bint Jbiel clear?
One thing that struck me at the time was how emotional the Israelis were. It didn’t feel like you were dealing with people who embraced cold hard logic.
They consider the Hezbollah raid an affront, and they would respond in kind.
Madness.
This post was edited on 12/28/17 at 9:37 pm
Posted on 12/28/17 at 9:50 pm to Iosh
quote:
I have a plan: Israel handles its own shite
This is an idiotic statement. If anything, our relationship with isreal keeps all of those countries including isreal on a leash. The situation in that area is what it is now because the last time Isreal’s neighbors got froggy, isreal handed them their collective asses in six days. Isreal is more than capable of handling their own shite. The problem is that the US and other powers don’t want them handling their own shite. We don’t want Isreal going ham on any of their Arab neighbors that decide they wanna attack isreal or launch some missles into the country.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 9:54 pm to Blizzard of Chizz
quote:
This is an idiotic statement. If anything, our relationship with isreal keeps all of those countries including isreal on a leash.
The reason Israel kept on pushing us to bomb Iran was because they couldn’t do it themselves.
It’s also why they wanted us to attack the SAA. We could do what they could not.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 10:34 pm to Lakeboy7
Sounds straight out of Tom Clancy book 
Posted on 12/28/17 at 10:36 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
I would also point a finger at Halutz though. Like every air power advocate ever, he grossly overestimated the effectiveness of the IAF, and underestimated the importance of ground forces
Completely agree...
quote:
Over-reliance on airpower was another strategic folly. While the IDF had long invested in its airpower, until the 1990s, it believed land forces to be critical for victory. Yet, after the 1991 Kuwait war, many military strategists, not only in the United States, but also elsewhere, began to consider airpower to be seductive. Among political leaders, airpower is especially tempting. It offers great destructive capability without high risk in home casualties. Maj. Gen. (res.) Eitan Ben-Eliyahu, former chief of the Israeli air force, admitted that the fixation with new technologies was addictive and obscured thinking.
The Israeli Air Force leadership convinced Israeli politicians that they could expand their military role beyond traditional air missions and cope effectively with new security challenges. Halutz had commanded the air force between April 2000 and July 2004, and his enthusiasm for airpower was unequivocal.[26] As chief of staff, Halutz planned cuts in the IDF's ground forces and emphasized reliance on the air force.[27] The IDF sought to tackle low-intensity conflict with a combination of airpower and special forces.[28] Yuval Steinitz, former chair of the Knesset (parliament)'s Committee on Security and Foreign Affairs, questioned the wisdom of giving airpower such a high priority on both a budgetary and a doctrinaire level,[29] but he was the exception rather than the rule.
quote:
Other points worth mentioning.... terrible intelligence, they had no idea what Hezbollah had become, or just how substantial those defenses were.
Worse yet they didn’t share what intelligence they had with thier front line units...
quote:
Only a number of special forces received training geared to operations in southern Lebanon, but even these units lacked the latest intelligence when ordered across the border because the heads of military intelligence refrained from transferring data collected on Hezbollah positions in southern Lebanon to the units in the field.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 10:39 pm to Blizzard of Chizz
quote:
This is an idiotic statement. If anything, our relationship with isreal keeps all of those countries including isreal on a leash. The situation in that area is what it is now because the last time Isreal’s neighbors got froggy, isreal handed them their collective asses in six days. Isreal is more than capable of handling their own shite. The problem is that the US and other powers don’t want them handling their own shite. We don’t want Isreal going ham on any of their Arab neighbors that decide they wanna attack isreal or launch some missles into the country.
This post is idiotic if anything
Posted on 12/28/17 at 10:39 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
Sounds straight out of Tom Clancy book
Naw baw, call of duty
Posted on 12/28/17 at 10:50 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
This post is idiotic if anything
Actually there is some truth to what he is saying. I would disagree with:
quote:
Isreal is more than capable of handling their own shite.
Yes they can but only because the US subsidizes almost 50% of their defense budget.
This post was edited on 12/28/17 at 10:51 pm
Posted on 12/28/17 at 10:53 pm to ABearsFanNMS
quote:
Yes they can but only because the US subsidizes almost 50% of their defense budget.
Which is a huge problem
It’s a one way relationship with them, especially since they sit by and don’t deploy around the world with us.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 11:25 pm to StraightCashHomey21
It may just be me but if I am paying for “it” the ho needs to “do any and everything I want” with a smile on her face!
But as has been stated earlier in this thread, with friends like Israel who needs enemies.
But as has been stated earlier in this thread, with friends like Israel who needs enemies.
Posted on 12/29/17 at 2:49 am to Lima Whiskey
quote:
I'm sorry, but that's truly precious
Israel is light years ahead of Hezbollah technologically. Israel has tactical nukes. Now you are going to honestly sit there and tell me Hezbollah wins that war. You've lost your mind.
Posted on 12/29/17 at 4:17 am to Iosh
Long term goal yes, but we are not at that point yet.
Posted on 12/29/17 at 5:30 am to Tiguar
quote:
It's nice having a president who works with allies instead of arming enemies.
Is that why he’s pissed off nearly every ally and damaged relationships? Is that why many allies voted against us in the UN? You are beyond ignorant.Posted on 12/29/17 at 5:57 am to HTDawg
quote:
Is that why he’s pissed off nearly every ally and damaged relationships? Is that why many allies voted against us in the UN? You are beyond ignorant
No you are. The UN regularly opposes the U.S. especially when it comes to Israel. I'm not sure that those voting against us can be considered allies. You really sound stupid.
Posted on 12/29/17 at 8:18 am to bencoleman
quote:
I'm not sure that those voting against us can be considered allies. You really sound stupid.
Yet Saudi Arabia voted against it
Lol this is way too easy with you
Posted on 12/29/17 at 11:57 am to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
Yet Saudi Arabia voted against it
Lol this is way too easy with you
I guess it is because I'm not sure how that's relevant. In fact that's pretty much useless information.
Posted on 12/29/17 at 12:00 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Israel is a cancer on American foreign policy.
Posted on 12/29/17 at 5:32 pm to bencoleman
And with all that technology, Hezbollah humbled them with low tech competence.
We’ve had the same problem with the Taliban.
As for nukes. Israel isn’t going to use them in Lebanon.
The price just isn’t worth it.
Nukes would also be ineffective against hidden launch sites.
The issue is finding them, not blowing them up.
We’ve had the same problem with the Taliban.
As for nukes. Israel isn’t going to use them in Lebanon.
The price just isn’t worth it.
Nukes would also be ineffective against hidden launch sites.
The issue is finding them, not blowing them up.
This post was edited on 12/29/17 at 10:43 pm
Posted on 12/29/17 at 9:17 pm to Lima Whiskey
Everybody seems to blow off Israels nukes since we've managed to keep them from using them thus far by smashing foes for them.
They have us over a barrel. The people who say, let Israel deal with it are right about one thing, Israel CAN deal with it. But it's HOW they'd have to deal with it that would cause them to reconsider our being involved. Nobody wants mushroom clouds and Israel won't have much choice if it gets too bad. For them, this is about extinction. They're not walking into the showers passively this time.
They have us over a barrel. The people who say, let Israel deal with it are right about one thing, Israel CAN deal with it. But it's HOW they'd have to deal with it that would cause them to reconsider our being involved. Nobody wants mushroom clouds and Israel won't have much choice if it gets too bad. For them, this is about extinction. They're not walking into the showers passively this time.
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