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re: Trust the science? Ozempic issues
Posted on 11/21/24 at 7:26 am to Snipe
Posted on 11/21/24 at 7:26 am to Snipe
quote:
Either way, the result will be less fat people, which is a net positive.
Big Pharma strikes again.
The magic pill replaces willpower yet again.
I understand why some people medically need this thing, but its being used by many as a replacement for behavioral change.
1
Posted on 11/21/24 at 7:28 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
but its being used by many as a replacement for behavioral change.
Again, the most interesting part of the drug classes to me is just this
Ozempic shows promise for alcohol and drug addiction, study finds
quote:
Researchers have known for many years that the mechanism in the brain that regulates food-seeking behaviors overlaps with the mechanism that regulates why some people develop addiction, says Dr. Lorenzo Leggio, the clinical director of the National Institute of Drug Abuse.
Scientists still don’t know exactly how Ozempic and similar medications work, he adds. “We believe that these medications are active in the brain and similar to their actions on food, they also curb their craving for addictive drugs,” Leggio says.
Hendershot notes that these medications are highly effective at inducing satiety and that’s why they work for weight loss. Researchers suspect that satiety signal may also be helping people decrease substance use once they start these medications, he says.
“Another potential mechanism is that these medications tend to reduce the reward value or hedonic value of highly palatable foods and addictive drugs,” Hendershot explains.
THAT is going to be the big breakthrough once we get to study these functions and input/output relationships
Posted on 11/21/24 at 7:30 am to crazy4lsu
Thanks for the info
This topic isn’t the hill I’m going to die on, but here’s my general opinion:
1. For someone morbidly obese, I think this is a good idea and I don’t really even care what the side effects are, because I doubt it’s worse than their obesity
2. I’m skeptical that the person who is ~50-100 lbs overweight should use this as a first option, because I have reservations that there aren’t side effects that are poorly understood with widespread use. I base this only on the history of drugs in the past being very damaging and having to be pulled.
3. It’s extremely expensive and is a foreign owned entity. Having insurance, especially government insurance, cover this on a mass scale is not something we can or should do with all our other fiscal disasters
4. The natural way is always the better way. And yes I understand that people are lazy and don’t listen, so this is just a side bar, but it’s still the truth and finding creative ways to incentivize better health behaviors would be a good idea imo
This topic isn’t the hill I’m going to die on, but here’s my general opinion:
1. For someone morbidly obese, I think this is a good idea and I don’t really even care what the side effects are, because I doubt it’s worse than their obesity
2. I’m skeptical that the person who is ~50-100 lbs overweight should use this as a first option, because I have reservations that there aren’t side effects that are poorly understood with widespread use. I base this only on the history of drugs in the past being very damaging and having to be pulled.
3. It’s extremely expensive and is a foreign owned entity. Having insurance, especially government insurance, cover this on a mass scale is not something we can or should do with all our other fiscal disasters
4. The natural way is always the better way. And yes I understand that people are lazy and don’t listen, so this is just a side bar, but it’s still the truth and finding creative ways to incentivize better health behaviors would be a good idea imo
Posted on 11/21/24 at 7:31 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
THAT is going to be the big breakthrough once we get to study these functions and input/output relationships
I'd rather microdose shrooms, they supposedly have a similar effect.
Posted on 11/21/24 at 7:34 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
We are entering the fifth year of you being angry
Angry about what?
quote:
Congrats, you’ve been a bitch for half a decade.
Says a lunatic pushing poison on ppl
Posted on 11/21/24 at 7:35 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
I'd rather microdose shrooms, they supposedly have a similar effect.
There is that line of research, too.
Lots of stuff just beginning to be studied legitimately to work on the impacts of trauma, history, and other inputs that seem to rewire the brains of humans that lead to pathologies.
It's really exciting times for possible treatments of a lot of pathologies that severely impact society negatively.
Posted on 11/21/24 at 7:36 am to SDVTiger
quote:
Angry about what?
You tell me, given how many times you call out my name in random medical threads.
quote:
Says a lunatic pushing poison on ppl
Hell yeah.
Posted on 11/21/24 at 7:36 am to MemphisGuy
quote:
If one needs Ozempic or Mounjaro to lose a crap ton of weight and it helps them, and if they increase protein intake and do some weight lifting, they'll counter the loss of muscle mass. And in the process, no longer be a type 2 diabetic, get off a crap ton of other drugs, etc. At that point, they can then continue to eat healthy and exercise. How is that not a win?
I don’t really trust people that ate their way into diabetes to stop eating like garbage. These people had zero discipline to begin with. This isn’t going to magically change everyone.
Posted on 11/21/24 at 7:37 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
You tell me, given how many times you call out my name in random medical threads.
No one knows what you are babbling about
quote:
Hell yeah.
At least you finally admit you are a lunatic
Posted on 11/21/24 at 7:42 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
We have that data and that has not occurred.
bullshite. Talk to a gastroenterologist. Severe vomiting , nausea , severe heartburn, constipation, emergency room visits, you name it. I talked to a guy Saturday who had to stop taking just because of the constipation. I’ve talked to 3/4 medical professionals on this in the last month. The gastro issues are the flaw in the design. I still support these medications however. The risk is acceptable considering the options. And of course if you have these symptoms, you can get off the drugs. But they can have serious side effects and aren’t for everyone .
Posted on 11/21/24 at 7:45 am to Lsupimp
quote:
But they can have serious side effects and aren’t for everyone .
Well yeah, nobody said otherwise or proclaimed any sort of perfection.
These drugs have been used for about 20 years.
Posted on 11/21/24 at 7:47 am to SDVTiger
quote:
No one knows what you are babbling about
lol
quote:
At least you finally admit you are a lunatic
Who is going to be pushing ‘poison’ for the next 40 years. Hell yeah.
Posted on 11/21/24 at 7:47 am to Lsupimp
quote:
bullshite. Talk to a gastroenterologist. Severe vomiting , nausea , severe heartburn, constipation, emergency room visits, you name it
this class of drugs also causes things like decreasing bone density and muscle mass wasting.
they shouldnt be used for casual weight loss.
Posted on 11/21/24 at 7:50 am to timdonaghyswhistle
quote:This is so true with nearly everything in life. The trouble is, you don't really see it clearly until you get grey hair.
If it sounds too good to be true...
Posted on 11/21/24 at 7:50 am to Penrod
quote:
I think this is mostly bullshite
It's a peptide (semaglutide) so it's pretty similar to what you body already produces. I know lots of people that got on it for 4-6 months, dropped weight and kept it off.
It basically makes you feel full all the time, so if you don't eat enough, muscle mass loss is an obvious side effect. Basically eat protein, exercise and get off it as quickly as possible and the long term effects are most likely minimal if any at all.
Posted on 11/21/24 at 7:52 am to SlowFlowPro
Agree. They are good , proven drugs but the side effects can be severe on some people, more than we are being told.
Someone in the thread said something I’d like to emphasize: Be very careful if you already have an existing GI problem like severe reflux or esophageal spasm etc.
Someone in the thread said something I’d like to emphasize: Be very careful if you already have an existing GI problem like severe reflux or esophageal spasm etc.
Posted on 11/21/24 at 7:54 am to OBReb6
quote:
3. It’s extremely expensive and is a foreign owned entity. Having insurance, especially government insurance, cover this on a mass scale is not something we can or should do with all our other fiscal disasters
Most local compounding pharmacies now make semaglutide, so the cost is not excessive. The name brand is ridiculous, but the generic is very affordable.
Posted on 11/21/24 at 7:57 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
this class of drugs also causes things like decreasing bone density and muscle mass wasting.
It's not as much the drugs as the patient's response to the drugs.
Obese individuals have higher bone density and certain lower-body muscle groups can get quite robust (assuming they're mobile).
When these people lose weight, their bone density and those muscle groups will decrease. Adjusting to their new body is the important variable, and it's clearly a gap in how we're using the drugs as treatment. But if non-scientists on this board can tell you how to properly respond (adjusting to a better diet, weight-bearing activity, and using the drug as a stop-gap), I'm sure the professionals will in time.
Posted on 11/21/24 at 7:58 am to lsutiger90
quote:
. Basically eat protein, exercise and get off it as quickly as possible and the long term effects are most likely minimal if any at all.
Exactly.
Get on it for 3-6 months. Get health benefits. Pair it with a plan for adjusting your food intake and activity levels.
Drop the fat and let it rewire your gut and brain so that you're a new person when it's over.
Going into it as some long term solution seems to be potentially suboptimal.
Posted on 11/21/24 at 7:59 am to OBReb6
quote:
I’m skeptical that the person who is ~50-100 lbs overweight should use this as a first option, because I have reservations that there aren’t side effects that are poorly understood with widespread use. I base this only on the history of drugs in the past being very damaging and having to be pulled.
I mean, 50-100 lbs overweight is a large amount, and there is a strong chance that they are pre-diabetic. I’d wager a decent amount of side effects comes from improper dosing, jumping from tiers of doses wildly, which is when I’ve seen those side effects which require discontinuation. The rarest reaction I’ve seen is the one where they cannot tolerate any dose without side effects, which can occur. But more often it’s jumping to a stronger dose before it is recommended.
In terms of pricing, the price will eventually come down. The explosion in the use of the drug for weight loss occurred when a generic became available. The newer drugs, which are even more promising, will make semiglutide a second-line option.
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