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Posted on 7/1/22 at 6:47 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
Yikes. This case is DOA if those are what you base the allegations upon. Is this seriously what you consider actions that meet the elements? Contesting the election and then failing to discourage others from their actions?
You've got your cite to the statute counselor, so feel free to provide some cases that say encouraging armed protesters to delay certification won't meet the elements.
Posted on 7/1/22 at 7:17 pm to oman
quote:
There have already been convictions for sedition so yes, there has been an illegal act.
And you can prove trump was in communication with those that have been convicted? Of course not. It’s not me who doesn’t know how this works.
Posted on 7/1/22 at 7:18 pm to oman
quote:
encouraging armed protesters to delay certification
“ protest legally and peacefully.” Those were his words that day. Got Heeeeem!
Posted on 7/1/22 at 7:24 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
“ protest legally and peacefully.”
You know that truth doesn't matter to these Nazis.
Posted on 7/1/22 at 7:40 pm to AirbusDawg
quote:
There are plenty of images that show people had guns.
Post one
Posted on 7/1/22 at 8:00 pm to oman
quote:
Knew there was no legal basis for challenging the election count (Jan. 3 Clark meeting) Knew protesters were armed, but weren't going to hurt him (Trump). Discouraged use of metal detectors and continued to encouraged said armed protesters to go to Congress. Failed to discourage protesters while viewing destruction and possible delay of certification of votes.
I honestly didn’t think there were idiots out there parroting this nonsense much less actually believing it. Much less actually thinking it formed the basis for any type of prosecution.
Mea culpa. I remain naïve.
Posted on 7/1/22 at 8:32 pm to Decatur
quote:
When does Trump go under oath for all of this?
"Decatur violates goats anally several times per week."
When does Decatur go under oath for all of this?
Posted on 7/1/22 at 9:12 pm to oman
quote:
Knew there was no legal basis for challenging the election count (Jan. 3 Clark meeting) Knew protesters were armed, but weren't going to hurt him (Trump). Discouraged use of metal detectors and continued to encouraged said armed protesters to go to Congress. Failed to discourage protesters while viewing destruction and possible delay of certification of votes.
Now do Democratic congresspersons and BLM riots.
Posted on 7/1/22 at 10:02 pm to oman
quote:
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
So to be clear, trying to burn down down a federal courthouse would fall under this statute? Nah, no double standard here…..
Posted on 7/2/22 at 9:01 am to BBONDS25
quote:
And you can prove trump was in communication with those that have been convicted? Of course not. It’s not me who doesn’t know how this works.
I think you seem to be misrepresenting how it works, so it may only just sound like you don't know how it works. Blame it on the brevity of posting
You don't need a direct communication. Trump's intent is clear from the Jan. 3 meetings regarding Clark as well as his request for Pence to disrupt the certification. Jury instruction under the Conspiracy to commit fraud statute read as follows:
(Sorry for cut and paste margins)
Conspiracy – Existence of an Agreement
The first element of the crime of conspiracy is the existence of an agreement.
The government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that two or more persons
knowingly and intentionally arrived at a mutual understanding or agreement, either
spoken or unspoken, to work together to achieve the overall objective of the
conspiracy, [to commit the offense(s) of (state offenses)] [to defraud the United States].
The government does not have to prove the existence of a formal or written
agreement, or an express oral agreement spelling out the details of the
understanding. The government also does not have to prove that all the members of
the conspiracy directly met, or discussed between themselves their unlawful
objective(s), or agreed to all the details, or agreed to what the means were by which
the objective(s) would be accomplished. The government is not even required to
prove that all the people named in the indictment were, in fact, parties to the
agreement, or that all members of the alleged conspiracy were named, or that all
members of the conspiracy are even known. What the government must prove
beyond a reasonable doubt is that two or more persons in some way or manner
arrived at some type of agreement, mutual understanding, or meeting of the minds to
try to accomplish a common and unlawful objective.
You may consider both direct evidence and circumstantial evidence in
deciding whether the government has proved beyond a reasonable doubt that an
agreement or mutual understanding existed. You may find the existence of a
conspiracy based on reasonable inferences drawn from the actions and statements of the alleged members of the conspiracy, from the circumstances surrounding the
scheme, and from evidence of related facts and circumstances which prove that the
activities of the participants in a criminal venture could not have been carried out
except as the result of a preconceived agreement, scheme, or understanding.
[The indictment charges a conspiracy to commit several federal crimes. The
government does not have to prove that the alleged conspirators agreed to commit all of
these crimes. The government, however, must prove that they agreed to commit at least
one of the object crimes, and you must unanimously agree on which crime. You cannot
find (name) guilty of conspiracy unless you unanimously agree that the same federal
crime(s) was (were) the objective(s) of the conspiracy. It is not enough if some of you
agree that one of the charged crimes was the objective of the conspiracy and others agree
that a different crime was the objective of the conspiracy.]
LINK
Posted on 7/2/22 at 9:05 am to the808bass
quote:
Now do Democratic congresspersons and BLM riots.
First hit on google. Sure, I suppose lots of these folks could have been hit with various federal crimes.
LINK
Posted on 7/2/22 at 9:17 am to Edmt
quote:
Post one
I don't have an image, but again, first google hit.
LINK
The issue is that there is sworn testimony that Trump thought people were armed. We know there were other deadly weapons there. The issue is more towards what Trump thought the protesters were capable of doing and what a normal person would understand to be the results of such encouragement.
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