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Message
1
Posted on 1/1/26 at 4:41 pm to Kjnstkmn
Posted on 1/1/26 at 4:41 pm to UncleLogger
quote:Nope. It's exegesis from the Bible. I've explained my reasoning.
Lol. Is this from the Ted Cruz study Bible?
quote:If you would like to address my reasoning for interpreting the Bible as I have, I'd love to read it.
If anyone ever wondered why the Catholic church (pre 1943 at least) discouraged unguided individual Bible study and interpretation of scripture… Well here you go.
Posted on 1/1/26 at 4:43 pm to Champagne
quote:Taxes? Yes. The principle applies.
Please apply your Bible interpretation to the Holocaust scenario. Were the Jews morally obligated by God to pay taxes to the Nazi German government during the Holocaust?
Posted on 1/1/26 at 4:44 pm to Captain Rumbeard
quote:There's a difference between God using unlawful means to accomplish positive ends and God commanding faithful obedience by His people.
Sorry, God is speaking through those who are resistant to this shite too.
Posted on 1/1/26 at 4:46 pm to FooManChoo
everyone needs to vote the current occupants out at all levels. keep doing it until you see change.
Posted on 1/1/26 at 4:48 pm to Kjnstkmn
quote:
America is 35 Trillion in debt because our politicians were stealing money.
quote:
Taxation Is A Humiliation Ritual
Posted on 1/1/26 at 4:51 pm to FooManChoo
Curious how you interpret Romans13:1-7. If you resist governing authorities, you resist god.
Or do you only abide scripture that fits your worldview?
quote:
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. ...
Or do you only abide scripture that fits your worldview?
Posted on 1/1/26 at 4:55 pm to FMtTXtiger
quote:Naive folk such as yourself are a large part of why communism is going to be in hard and deep within a decade.
everyone needs to vote the current occupants out at all levels. keep doing it until you see change.
This post was edited on 1/1/26 at 4:56 pm
Posted on 1/1/26 at 5:03 pm to lurking
quote:That's actually my point. We are not supposed to resist those authorities, except when they command us to directly disobey God. Acts 4:19 is the proof text for that exception.
Curious how you interpret Romans13:1-7. If you resist governing authorities, you resist god.
quote:
Or do you only abide scripture that fits your worldview?
If you would like to show how I'm incorrectly exegeting Scripture, please do so.
Posted on 1/1/26 at 5:04 pm to Kjnstkmn
quote:
Yeah frick all that, how about we make martyrs of them.
That’s the philosophy of David, the man after God’s heart
Posted on 1/1/26 at 5:07 pm to FooManChoo
There's also an ultimate deceiver involved here and you can't be positive that kind of evil shite isn't intentional because you don't know if you're actually dealing with one side or the other. If I see something committing evil while telling me God's ok with it just pay up, I kinda don't get how you're buying it.
Posted on 1/1/26 at 5:13 pm to Captain Rumbeard
quote:The question is whether or not taxes ought to be paid by Christians to wicked governments. I'm not talking about the specific evils be perpetrated, because I haven't condoned any evil. I'm only talking about the biblical principle of tax-paying.
If I see something committing evil while telling me God's ok with it just pay up, I kinda don't get how you're buying it.
From what I can tell, the Scriptures only provide one answer: Christians are supposed to pay their taxes. The governments of the Jews and the Romans were both trying to kill and persecute Christians, and they were both engaged in extreme immorality (using collected taxes), and yet the command is there to pay our taxes.
I don't know how you get around it other than to just ignore it.
Posted on 1/1/26 at 5:13 pm to Captain Rumbeard
quote:
I see something committing evil while telling me God's ok with it just pay up,
Same, all sorts of evil, but hey we should be nice Christians and just contribute. Seems like a spineless out for not standing for what’s right. But I guess God wants us to be just spineless good Christians
This post was edited on 1/1/26 at 5:15 pm
Posted on 1/1/26 at 5:20 pm to Padme
Yeah I'm not buying that at all.
Posted on 1/1/26 at 5:25 pm to Captain Rumbeard
Posted on 1/1/26 at 5:55 pm to FooManChoo
Who decides what is the Government’s? The Government? So, if a Government says 99% of your earnings belong to them, we should just go back to that one scripture and accept it?
While Jesus was on earth, Roman taxes were very modest when compared to modern taxes of most western nations. Augustus implemented a 4% sales tax. That was a jump of 3% over Julius 1% sales tax. Of course, there were land and poll taxes also but nothing compared to the thievery of American taxes today.
Jesus was speaking in context of his time and instructing his followers to render what was required to maintain a functioning system. It was considered fair at the time. Maybe he would have had a different take in 2025 and instructed the government to end the corruption instead of saying to pay the government whatever the government decides it wants?
I don’t know? Do you think he was directing that to those followers living at that time under Caeserian authority? Could you consider that might be the case?
While Jesus was on earth, Roman taxes were very modest when compared to modern taxes of most western nations. Augustus implemented a 4% sales tax. That was a jump of 3% over Julius 1% sales tax. Of course, there were land and poll taxes also but nothing compared to the thievery of American taxes today.
Jesus was speaking in context of his time and instructing his followers to render what was required to maintain a functioning system. It was considered fair at the time. Maybe he would have had a different take in 2025 and instructed the government to end the corruption instead of saying to pay the government whatever the government decides it wants?
I don’t know? Do you think he was directing that to those followers living at that time under Caeserian authority? Could you consider that might be the case?
Posted on 1/1/26 at 6:05 pm to Dirk Dawgler
quote:Yes, that is what Jesus was saying.
Who decides what is the Government’s? The Government?
quote:We should pay it, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't go about attempting to reform it.
So, if a Government says 99% of your earnings belong to them, we should just go back to that one scripture and accept it?
quote:I don't think the tax rate matters because Jesus didn't comment about the rate. He commented about what was required.
While Jesus was on earth, Roman taxes were very modest when compared to modern taxes of most western nations. Augustus implemented a 4% sales tax. That was a jump of 3% over Julius 1% sales tax. Of course, there were land and poll taxes also but nothing compared to the thievery of American taxes today.
Jesus was speaking in context of his time and instructing his followers to render what was required to maintain a functioning system. It was considered fair at the time. Maybe he would have had a different take in 2025 and instructed the government to end the corruption instead of saying to pay the government whatever the government decides it wants?
I don’t know? Do you think he was directing that to those followers living at that time under Caeserian authority? Could you consider that might be the case?
When Jesus was asked by a tax collector what he should do, Jesus didn't tell him to quit his job, nor did he mention anything about the tax rate. He spoke against the practice of tax collectors taking more than what was owed and pocketing the excess (aka stealing) by telling him only to collect what was required.
The principle is about authority and what is owed. Jesus, when asked about paying taxes, didn't question the amount, but pointed to the image on the coin (the image of Caesar). He was saying that it's Caesar's money and if he requires it, it is the obligation of the citizen to pay it.
Think about other contexts outside of taxes. Jesus' disciples left everything behind to follow Him. They didn't give up only that which they thought was reasonable while holding on to everything else.
Likewise, when Jesus is teaching about self-sacrifice for the sake of the kingdom of heaven, Jesus didn't say "if you give up most of what you have but hold on to your family members who hate me, that's OK", but He said that if you love father or mother more than Him, you don't belong to Him.
If Jesus demands that He is the central focus of the Christian's life, to the point of even giving up close family and friends for His sake, do you think He is worried about the percentage of taxes being paid to the government that requires you to pay taxes?
Posted on 1/1/26 at 6:16 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
If you would like to address my reasoning for interpreting the Bible as I have, I'd love to read it.
The Pharisees were trying to have him killed. The question was a trap.
The Romans could carry out executions, the Jewish Priests could not. The question “whether or not it was LAWFUL to pay taxes to Cesar, or should we pay or not pay” was immediately recognized by Jesus as a trap.
The Roman imposed taxes were universally despised by the Jews, so if Jesus says yes, pay the census taxes to Cesar he would lose all credibility and support among the normal Jews who were following his teachings.
If he says no, Jesus knew they could report him to the authorities and have him arrested for sedition or insurrection, telling public crowds not to pay taxes and calling himself a King would be enough.
He first calls them out for their deceitful tactics and hypocrisy then sidesteps the question. He highlights their hypocrisy pointing out the idolatrous image of Cesar on their coins then responds without answering Yes or No.
God cares nothing about coins and obsessing about money is idolatry. That’s the point. That’s it.
It’s not meant to be an endorsement of any form of taxation or government, but of course the early Roman church leaned into this misreading for obvious purposes.
Posted on 1/1/26 at 6:29 pm to UncleLogger
quote:Good attempt, but that's not exactly what happened.
The Pharisees were trying to have him killed. The question was a trap.
The Romans could carry out executions, the Jewish Priests could not. The question “whether or not it was LAWFUL to pay taxes to Cesar, or should we pay or not pay” was immediately recognized by Jesus as a trap.
The Roman imposed taxes were universally despised by the Jews, so if Jesus says yes, pay the census taxes to Cesar he would lose all credibility and support among the normal Jews who were following his teachings.
If he says no, Jesus knew they could report him to the authorities and have him arrested for sedition or insurrection, telling public crowds not to pay taxes and calling himself a King would be enough.
He first calls them out for their deceitful tactics and hypocrisy then sidesteps the question. He highlights their hypocrisy pointing out the idolatrous image of Cesar on their coins then responds without answering Yes or No.
God cares nothing about coins and obsessing about money is idolatry. That’s the point. That’s it.
It’s not meant to be an endorsement of any form of taxation or government, but of course the early Roman church leaned into this misreading for obvious purposes.
Jesus asked for a coin and pointed out the image and the inscription, which both indicated that the coin was Roman and belonged to Caesar. That's why Jesus said to give to Caesar that which belongs to him. He was acknowledging Caesar's right to require taxes using the money his government creates. He didn't comment about idolatry but giving what belongs to Caesar.
In other words, Jesus said to pay what Caesar (the government) requires in taxes because its their money. The account is the same in the synoptic gospels.
Paul backs up this same concept in Romans 13, when he says, "For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed."
Peter also speaks to this concept of honoring the government due to its authority in 1 Peter 2, when he says, "Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor."
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