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Posted on 6/28/20 at 2:57 pm to Damone
quote:
It’s not just that they lost, it’s that they lost so bad they had to quit and beg the US to stop beating them.
Tell that to the 360,222 Union soldiers that died vs
258,000 from the South. There were no winners in that war.
This post was edited on 6/28/20 at 3:05 pm
Posted on 6/28/20 at 3:04 pm to udtiger
The Confederate officers took an oath to protect and defend the Union. They violated that. What else would you call it?
Posted on 6/28/20 at 3:34 pm to JudgeHolden
quote:
The Confederate officers took an oath to protect and defend the Union. They violated that. What else would you call it?
But they didn't like Abraham Lincoln, Tall Man Bad!
Posted on 6/28/20 at 3:43 pm to udtiger
No, they were traitors
Posted on 6/28/20 at 3:49 pm to Ted2010
quote:
The Confederate officers took an oath to protect and defend the Union. They violated that. What else would you call it?
I suggest you actually read the oath of office for an Officer in 1860 before stepping off the edge of the cliff and proving you are lacking in general historical skill or knowledge.
The Oath defines defending the Constitution and not one word on the UNION as you learned from a Bazooka Bubble Gum wrapper.
Try again ...your slip is showing.
Posted on 6/28/20 at 3:52 pm to JudgeHolden
quote:
The Confederate officers took an oath to protect and defend the Union. They violated that. What else would you call it?
Good question...
Ask Roberts, Ginsberg, Kagan, Sotomayor, Breyer, Obama, Biden, Schumer, Pelosi and the rest of the Dems in Congress and get back to me.
Posted on 6/28/20 at 3:54 pm to udtiger
They took up arms to pursue violence against fellow Americans?
Posted on 6/28/20 at 3:55 pm to udtiger
This is the oath the Confederate officers took before they violated it:
"I, _____, appointed a _____ in the Army of the United States, do solemnly swear, or affirm, that I will bear true allegiance to the United States of America, and that I will serve them honestly and faithfully against all their enemies or opposers whatsoever, and observe and obey the orders of the President of the United States, and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the rules and articles for the government of the Armies of the United States."
I ain’t no linguist, but I’d say taking up arms against the United States is something short of “true allegiance.”
"I, _____, appointed a _____ in the Army of the United States, do solemnly swear, or affirm, that I will bear true allegiance to the United States of America, and that I will serve them honestly and faithfully against all their enemies or opposers whatsoever, and observe and obey the orders of the President of the United States, and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the rules and articles for the government of the Armies of the United States."
I ain’t no linguist, but I’d say taking up arms against the United States is something short of “true allegiance.”
Posted on 6/28/20 at 3:58 pm to udtiger
quote:
Ask Roberts, Ginsberg, Kagan, Sotomayor, Breyer, Obama, Biden, Schumer, Pelosi and the rest of the Dems in Congress and get back to me.
I missed the part where those folks took violent action against the US military and killed 360,202 American soldiers.
Posted on 6/28/20 at 4:00 pm to Damone
quote:
They took up arms to pursue violence against fellow Americans
The colonists took up arms against their fellow Englishmen.
Like the colonists, they attempted redress and relief through the "legitimate" mechanisms and were rebuffed. It was made clear that even though "equal" they were to be subservient.
I am not here to argue there merits of slavery. As Walter Williams said, the question is not whether they were defending slavery, but whether they hD the right to secede.
They did.
States still do (regardless of Texas v. White).
Posted on 6/28/20 at 4:01 pm to bluedragon
quote:
I suggest you actually read the oath of office for an Officer in 1860 before stepping off the edge of the cliff and proving you are lacking in general historical skill or knowledge.
I did and I posted it. The “who’s the moron now” baton is in your hands now, good sir.
They swore “true allegiance to the United States.” Were they fighting for the United States at Shiloh? Gettysburg? Vicksburg?
Being as you are all historical and all, explain that one to me.
Posted on 6/28/20 at 4:02 pm to bluedragon
quote:
bluedragon
I see you went to Auburn. Guess I shouldn’t have expected much.
Posted on 6/28/20 at 4:03 pm to JudgeHolden
R.N. Bradbury, former Full Professor Polymaths at Heidelberg University
Answered August 29, 2017 · Author has 253 answers and 27.3K answer views
In point of fact there were oaths to support and defend the Constitution but never the government.
Officers owe their allegiance to the founding documents and are bound by the law to obey lawful orders.
Bear in mind that the Ninth and Tenth Amendments recognizes the seniority of the States over the Federal Government in all items except those listed in the enumerated powers clauses. Therefore officers in the military in 1860 correctly understood that the Constitution recognized the authority to dissolve the union and their ability to follow their state.
Next time, try the oath that existed in the time period the Officers took the oath ...instead of the modern day version ...
You'll discover that you sound a lot more learned.
Posted on 6/28/20 at 4:03 pm to Paul Maul number 37
quote:
That West Virginia was allowed to secede from the state of Virginia during the war and be admitted as a new state could not have legally occurred if Virginia was still considered a state in the union. Article IV, Section 3 forbid this from happening. Thus, that the US respected the Confederacy as a separate nation at that time means that the soldiers fighting for the Confederacy were in fact foreigners and NOT citizens of the US.
They used a loophole.
A Unionist group of Virginians declared themselves the legitimate government of Virginia and consented to splitting the state.
Posted on 6/28/20 at 4:04 pm to More&Les
quote:
They were Americans, then they formed an insurgency government and attacked the United States, they were fricking traitors
The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court had a different opinion:
“If you bring these [Confederate] leaders to trial it will condemn the North, for by the Constitution secession is not rebellion. Lincoln wanted Davis to escape, and he was right. His capture was a mistake. His trial will be a greater one.”
Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase, July 1867 (Foote, The Civil War, Vol. 3, p. 765)
Posted on 6/28/20 at 4:06 pm to longwayfromLA
quote:
He later went on to invent the toilet.
I had heard that a guy named Crapper had invented the toilet. No shite. Look it up.
Posted on 6/28/20 at 4:06 pm to bluedragon
I posted the oath that existed from 1830 until 1862.
You posted a blog excerpt from a German professor. Boy those Germans sure are experts in American history, huh!
You posted a blog excerpt from a German professor. Boy those Germans sure are experts in American history, huh!
This post was edited on 6/28/20 at 5:34 pm
Posted on 6/28/20 at 4:07 pm to More&Les
quote:
Not technically, they were fricking traitors
Only because they lost.
Would you classify and call Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson traitors?
Posted on 6/28/20 at 4:18 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:
Only because they lost.
Would you classify and call Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson traitors?
The CSA was an insurgent army that literally started and fought a war against the United States, the country to which they had all pledged allegiance, they were Traitors to the United States, plain and simple.
Had they won they would still have been Traitors to the United States but the United States as founded, with its constitution would have perished from this earth and Tyrants like Stalin, Hitler would have succeeded
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