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re: The Scientific Establishment Is Finally Starting To Take Intelligent Design Seriously
Posted on 5/22/22 at 10:20 pm to bayoubengals88
Posted on 5/22/22 at 10:20 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
Jordan Peterson does a good job at showing how everything we experience is keenly Biblical.
Jordan Peterson is a philosopher who draws the philosophical truths from the Bible. The same can be done with many religious writings, he just uses the Bible because it’s foundational to western thought and he’s from the west.
Peterson himself has spent most of his life as, at most, a vague deist who believes in some higher order of some sort. Only very recently does he claim to even remotely be theistic, and he certainly rejects biblical literalism. Let SNL pretend he believes Noah’s flood literally happened
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Posted on 5/22/22 at 10:21 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
The problem with creationism seminars is they all use the exact same pseudoscience and talking points...
smh @ the irony
Posted on 5/22/22 at 10:22 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
Christianity makes the grandest of all religious claims, which makes it the contender against a theory of nothingness or meaninglessness.
The story of Jesus, it’s fundamental arch and ultimate conclusion, is much older than Christianity. Christianity is only unique in the fact that it’s a monotheistic religion with such a story AND that story is the sole prerequisite to admission to the afterlife.
This post was edited on 5/22/22 at 10:24 pm
Posted on 5/22/22 at 10:25 pm to Liberator
quote:I find other arguments more compelling, like Christianity being an alternative to nihilism and a provider of meaning. The soul finishing satisfaction in what it longs for, which you kind of alluded to.
According to this passage, God’s existence and power can be clearly seen through observing the universe. The order, intricacy, and wonder of creation speak to the existence of a powerful and glorious Creator.
Posted on 5/22/22 at 10:26 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
This is like bouncing a laser off the mirrors we left on the moon and still refusing to believe that we landed on the moon.
Wait a minute...
You believe "mirrors" were actually "left on the moon"??
WOW.
Several NASA reps have already admitted publicly, "we cannot leave Low Earth Orbit."
Ooops.
WE. NEVER WENT TO THE MOON. HULLO.
Posted on 5/22/22 at 10:26 pm to Liberator
quote:
Moses is the source of Genesis; the accounts of it are Divinely inspired as God was the ONLY one present at Creation.
Moses almost certainly never existed, and even if he did the books he supposedly wrote didn’t exist in any capacity until over 500 years after he supposedly lived and weren’t in their current full form until nearly a thousand years later.
This is mainstream historical consensus and only within the bubble of biblical literalism is it considered controversial.
This post was edited on 5/22/22 at 10:27 pm
Posted on 5/22/22 at 10:27 pm to Liberator
quote:
The Pagans-Gnostics- Luciferian-Masonic-Illuminati cabals took control as on the 1850s.
My goodness
Posted on 5/22/22 at 10:27 pm to Roger Klarvin
Which other "religion" solves the problem of sin, where God Himself come to earth as as a man in the flesh, to live out a blameless life, to take our place in death so that we may have eternal life?
Posted on 5/22/22 at 10:28 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:Seem to be intriguing qualifiers…what about the recorded data of Jesus actually living in 1st century Palestine? And then most of the Western World following a man who turned Greco Roman culture on its head?
Christianity is only unique in the fact that it’s a monotheistic religion with such a story AND that story is the sole prerequisite to admission to the afterlife.
Posted on 5/22/22 at 10:32 pm to civilag08
quote:Roger is trying to recall the things he learned in his undergraduate Religion course, but he just can’t quite remember any specifics.
Which other "religion" solves the problem of sin, where God Himself come to earth as as a man in the flesh, to live out a blameless life, to take our place in death so that we may have eternal life?
Or maybe he went to Duke Divinity School and studied under the renowned Bart Ehrman!
Posted on 5/22/22 at 10:33 pm to civilag08
quote:
What will you say then?
“A god that would create me knowing the mind I would possess and that he created would lead me to unbelief isn’t worth my time. You guys have fun up there.”
I’m not gonna say it wouldn’t suck, but it would also be the only possible answer from my perspective. I’m as incapable of believing in the god of the Bible as you are of believing in the gods of Hinduism. And he would have known that before he created me. I’ve got no particular interest in such a being even if he existed.
But because there’s no reason to believe he does we’ll all happily experience the same peaceful nothingness when we die. And I find that a more pleasant conclusion to this story than anything religion offers to be honest, because monotheism requires a large subset of humans to experience some form of eternal unhappiness/suffering. Affording to Christianity and Islam it’s the vast majority of people who have ever lived, and ever my one who lived prior to 3500 years ago.
Posted on 5/22/22 at 10:36 pm to Roger Klarvin
Then I will pray He will reveal Himself to you before the lights go out, and that you will be be able to recognize it when He does, because He is a merciful and loving God and He is not the author of confusion. I suspect those who wrote false accounts given many generations ago will have a lot to answer for.
Posted on 5/22/22 at 10:38 pm to bayoubengals88
What Roger certainly will never be able to do is tell me why he ever feels guilt or shame nor can he provide a rationale for how he can know anything he’s arguing is correct, given that the molecules in his brain have been conditioned to spit out the thoughts that he types onto the screen.
Posted on 5/22/22 at 10:42 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
It sounds like you’re trying to convince yourself that Lewis didn’t actually believe in God
No, I’m saying by his own admission he found maintaining belief difficult. “A Grief Observed” is one of the deepest, most beautiful things written in the English language IMO. It’s Lewis begging for an objective sign of god’s existence but knowing it will never come. He’s lamenting all that a loving god could do and does not. But he clearly claimed to still believe even to the end. I’m simply saying he had far more doubt and thought far more critically about it than anyone on this thread arguing iron clad proof of god.
But I have no issue with acknowledging people far smarter than me have believed in god throughout history. Isaac Newton might be the smartest person who ever lived and he lived and died a fairly devout believer. He also believes in alchemy and that certain races of humans were different species entirely. A man of his time certainly, but just to show that brilliance isn’t a complete cure for nonsense.
Posted on 5/22/22 at 10:45 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
I’m as incapable of believing in the god of the Bible as you are of believing in the gods of Hinduism. And he would have known that before he created me. I’ve got no particular interest in such a being even if he existed.
There’s a new book from Gavin Ortland that makes a lot of sense. Truth, beauty, wonder, and enchantment win the day.
Posted on 5/22/22 at 10:46 pm to Liberator
quote:
Wait a minute...
You believe "mirrors" were actually "left on the moon"??
WOW.
Several NASA reps have already admitted publicly, "we cannot leave Low Earth Orbit."
Ooops.
WE. NEVER WENT TO THE MOON. HULLO
Thanks for proving my point I guess
Posted on 5/22/22 at 10:48 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:Doubt is unavoidable. I wouldn’t trust anyone who says otherwise.
I’m simply saying he had far more doubt and thought far more critically about it than anyone on this thread arguing iron clad proof of god.
Posted on 5/22/22 at 10:49 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:Pretty safe bet that Liberator and I do not share denominations
Thanks for proving my point I guess
This post was edited on 5/22/22 at 10:51 pm
Posted on 5/22/22 at 10:50 pm to Roger Klarvin
Does the name of Jesus have any significance to you when spoken out loud? As opposed to any other name?
Posted on 5/22/22 at 10:56 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
What Roger certainly will never be able to do is tell me why he ever feels guilt or shame
Why do dogs feel guilt and shame?
quote:
nor can he provide a rationale for how he can know anything he’s arguing is correct
Now we’re getting into the weeds of what it means to “know” something.
The problem with the “you can’t know you know anything without god” line used by apologists is that’s its only true in the extremely technical sense and in that sense they can’t know anything they claim to know either.
Yes, technically I don’t know that this all isn’t a simulation. But taking the definition of knowledge to this extreme means you can’t know your belief isn’t programmed by the same simulation. In ANY OTHER real world, practical sense, we can absolutely have knowledge of reality apart from a higher power. This is because physical realities exist and we live in the physical world with senses that are, to varying degrees, at least sometimes reliable. We know this because of reproducibility in time and space. And all I have to do is know ONE THING to be demonstrably true, just one, to invalidate the argument.
This post was edited on 5/22/22 at 10:58 pm
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