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The narrative that poverty = violence & murder
Posted on 11/22/16 at 9:33 pm
Posted on 11/22/16 at 9:33 pm
Anyone else not buy this narrative? There are lots of dirt poor places in Appalachia with non-existent violent crime, in addition to cities like El Paso & San Antonio which are pretty safe relative to cities their size. 
22
Posted on 11/22/16 at 9:35 pm to NIH
What does the New York Times say?
The opposite of that.
The opposite of that.
Posted on 11/22/16 at 9:36 pm to NIH
quote:
The narrative that poverty = violence & murder
It is undeniable. You can account for literally ever other factor, and the higher your income, the less likely you are to commit violent crimes.
Perhaps you can argue that the only statistics we have are those that actually get caught, but I don't believe that explains the entire gap.
Posted on 11/22/16 at 9:36 pm to NIH
Lots of poverty in ABQ, Lerado, San Antonio, and El Paso but they are Mexicans who for some reason don't murder at anywhere the same rate as poor blacks.
Any academic or government worker would be shut down if they presented stats that show that the correlation between blacks and murder is stronger than just poverty and murder.
Any academic or government worker would be shut down if they presented stats that show that the correlation between blacks and murder is stronger than just poverty and murder.
This post was edited on 11/22/16 at 9:39 pm
Posted on 11/22/16 at 9:39 pm to slackster
quote:
You can account for literally ever other factor, and the higher your income, the less likely you are to commit violent crimes.
Right. Why are cities like New Orleans, Baltimore, Chicago, etc. much more violent than San Antonio, El Paso, etc?
Posted on 11/22/16 at 9:41 pm to NIH
Well if poverty rates have remained relatively stagnant over the last 50 years, how would we explain rising rates of violent crime.
The fact is that murder is up because single parenthood rates are up. In 1940, marriage rates among blacks exceeded rates among whites. And divorce rates among blacks were lower than whites'.
But it does not fit the liberal narrative to underscore the destruction of the nuclear family in urban areas. It's much more effective to blame America/whites/republicans/the south/wealthy people.
The fact is that murder is up because single parenthood rates are up. In 1940, marriage rates among blacks exceeded rates among whites. And divorce rates among blacks were lower than whites'.
But it does not fit the liberal narrative to underscore the destruction of the nuclear family in urban areas. It's much more effective to blame America/whites/republicans/the south/wealthy people.
Posted on 11/22/16 at 9:43 pm to NIH
quote:I think the relationship is clear but the causation is not. In other words, factors that lead to poverty (e.g., poor self-control; lower cognitive ability, etc.) may lead to violence AZ well.
Anyone else not buy this narrative?
In my opinion, there are broad factors (like above) that cause both BUT poverty does create circumstances where poverty makes one perceive violence as a more reasonable risk.
Posted on 11/22/16 at 9:43 pm to NIH
I believe violence and murder and theft bring poverty to the perp, not the other way, but because of this correlation it disguises the issue, and the libs do what libs do
Posted on 11/22/16 at 9:43 pm to slackster
quote:
Perhaps you can argue that the only statistics we have are those that actually get caught, but I don't believe that explains the entire gap.
The near-outliers of this theory are black-on-black crime and murder rates on Indian reservations. DOJ has blacks accounting for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, almost 8 times higher than whites, and the victim rate 6 times higher. The country's 310 Indian reservations have violent crime rates that are more than two and a half times higher than the national average, according to data compiled by the Justice Department. American Indian women are 10 times as likely to be murdered than other Americans.
This might contribute to the conclusion that poverty does play a role, however it also points toward a correlation within racial distinctions.
This post was edited on 11/22/16 at 9:45 pm
Posted on 11/22/16 at 9:44 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
I think the relationship is clear but the causation is not. In other words, factors that lead to poverty (e.g., poor self-control; lower cognitive ability, etc.) may lead to violence AZ well.
In my opinion, there are broad factors (like above) that cause both BUT poverty does create circumstances where poverty makes one perceive violence as a more reasonable risk.
This
Posted on 11/22/16 at 9:44 pm to NIH
My feelings for u are stronger and stronger.
Posted on 11/22/16 at 9:47 pm to wmr
quote:
My feelings for u are stronger and stronger.
Posted on 11/22/16 at 9:47 pm to NIH
quote:Well San Antonio had a lot poverty rate than Chicago and New Orleans.
Right. Why are cities like New Orleans, Baltimore, Chicago, etc. much more violent than San Antonio, El Paso, etc?
But one major problem I see with poverty rates (like most income and wealth metrics) are that I don't think (correct me if wrong) they don't account for cost of living.
So an income at the poverty level in Chicago is actually worse than the same income in a more affordable city.
Posted on 11/22/16 at 9:47 pm to Asgard Device
quote:
Any academic or government worker would be shut down if they presented stats that show that the correlation between blacks and murder is stronger than just poverty and murder.
I'm not sure why you'd suggest that when the FBI UCR very clearly shows the rate of arrests for murder/manslaughter are significantly higher for blacks than they are for hispanics. Combine that with the Census information on household income and you've got the numbers you seek.
Posted on 11/22/16 at 9:48 pm to PoundFoolish
There will be more murders this year in NOLA than all of the reservations combined. Weak correlation.
Posted on 11/22/16 at 9:49 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
So an income at the poverty level in Chicago is actually worse than the same income in a more affordable city.
Detroit is a pretty affordable city. Want to discuss its crime?
Posted on 11/22/16 at 9:50 pm to NIH
quote:
There will be more murders this year in NOLA than all of the reservations combined. Weak correlation.
True, but you'll have to consider the murder rate more than just the total murder tally to convince me of that.
Posted on 11/22/16 at 9:50 pm to NIH
quote:
There are lots of dirt poor places in Appalachia
In all fairness, they've been keeping it in the family for quite sometime now. I'd expect their crime stats to be lower than inner city people where gangs are competing for the rights to sell drugs on every corner.
And yes, correlation doesn't always equal causation. But it's undeniable, as another poster pointed out, that the more money you make, the less likely you are to commit violent crime or be subjected to it.
This post was edited on 11/22/16 at 9:54 pm
Posted on 11/22/16 at 9:51 pm to Fontainebleau Dr.
quote:
Well if poverty rates have remained relatively stagnant over the last 50 years, how would we explain rising rates of violent crime.
That is unequivocally false.
quote:
The fact is that murder is up because single parenthood rates are up. In 1940, marriage rates among blacks exceeded rates among whites. And divorce rates among blacks were lower than whites'.
But it does not fit the liberal narrative to underscore the destruction of the nuclear family in urban areas. It's much more effective to blame America/whites/republicans/the south/wealthy people.
^^^ All of this is bullshite because your original premise was an outright lie.
ETA: Your facts about marriage are true, but it doesn't change the inaccuracy of the entire premise.
This post was edited on 11/22/16 at 10:00 pm
Posted on 11/22/16 at 9:51 pm to NIH
Crime really didn't rise during the Great Depression.
Poverty and violence, like wealth and education, is mostly a values/culture issue.
Poverty and violence, like wealth and education, is mostly a values/culture issue.
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