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Started By
Message
re: The ISP/privacy issue, the dilemma and "conservatives"
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:16 pm to notsince98
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:16 pm to notsince98
ISPs are utilities, and should be treated as such.
1
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:18 pm to jeff5891
quote:
Im keeping a broader sense
A lot of wiki type sites and forums don't
That's nowhere near as lucrative as knowing your purchase habits.
If I'm a merchant, I don't care that you post on TD. What I care about is how much [insert favorite team here] merchandise you purchase.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:18 pm to Swoopin
quote:
ISPs are utilities, and should be treated as such.
Which means what exactly in the context of data privacy?
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:19 pm to Centinel
quote:
The third party advertising networks and data partners visualized above use a variety of methods designed to create comprehensive profiles of a user’s entire web browsing history. This includes persistent identifiers (cookies), IP addresses, device identifiers, direct authentication (such as email addresses), or probabilistic methods (such as browser fingerprinting). For a more extensive explanation of these tracking methods, see our 2015 report on Cross-Device Tracking. Furthermore, this information can be combined with offline data (appended data), such as a user’s in-store purchase history, for an even more comprehensive consumer profile.
LINK
This has been the end game for the ISPs for quite a while, and it's a bit disturbing that some refuse to acknowledge that this type of tracking is possible.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:20 pm to kingbob
quote:
However ISP's benefit from all of the advantages of being a utility with none of the consumer protections.
In Birmingham, Al, I have multiple choices for Internet providers and multiple delivery methods for the service. I know most rural areas can't say that. However, I only have one choice for water, power, and gas.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:20 pm to League Champs
The ISP of the server can develop a profile on you and sell it
quote:
League Champs
quote:
You don't even know, that you don't know what you are talking about
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:21 pm to Cs
quote:
Furthermore, this information can be combined with offline data (appended data), such as a user’s in-store purchase history, for an even more comprehensive consumer profile.
And the content providers are privy to the exact same information.
Next.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:21 pm to Centinel
quote:
That's nowhere near as lucrative as knowing your purchase habits.
I was never arguing what was more lucrative
quote:
If I'm a merchant, I don't care that you post on TD.
Think about medical wiki sites, Medical forum s, ect (you aren't thinking big enough and constraining your thought to what you think isn't a big deal). If the protocol isn't encrypted, all the info that can be learned.
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 6:27 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:22 pm to Cs
quote:
ISPs, on the other hand, are different. They have your payment information
I don't pay them electronically
Neither does the other 5 people that live in my house. How do they have ANY of their personal info?
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:23 pm to Centinel
They operate as relative monopolies at the pleasure of whatever region/municipality that has allowed them entry and access to right of ways for laying infrastructure.
Me saying they're utilities takes them outside of the scope of my traditional "regulation = bad" universe.
They should indeed be regulated in a very pro-consumer way. Because free market on utilities would mean 10x+ the electric polls, phone polls, water pipes, sewage lines, etc... going through a neighborhood. That's not a practical solution.
Me saying they're utilities takes them outside of the scope of my traditional "regulation = bad" universe.
They should indeed be regulated in a very pro-consumer way. Because free market on utilities would mean 10x+ the electric polls, phone polls, water pipes, sewage lines, etc... going through a neighborhood. That's not a practical solution.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:25 pm to Aubie Spr96
quote:
multiple choices
4-5 choices traditionally doesn't equate to a free market in scope and competition. There's a ton of stuff they can signal to eachother they won't compete on, such as privacy.
You truly need wide open competition for the threat of someone crossing the ISP line to have a real impact.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:27 pm to Swoopin
And wide open competition amongst ISPs is non-existent due to bad local and state regulation.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:27 pm to Swoopin
quote:
4-5 choices traditionally doesn't equate to a free market in scope and competition.
Name more than 4-5 search engines that are actually effective.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:29 pm to jeff5891
quote:
Think about medical wiki sites, Medical forum s, ect (you aren't thinking big enough and constraining your thought to what you think isn't a big deal). If the protocol isn't encrypted, all the info that can be learned.
And my counter to that is within five years or so you'll be hard-pressed to find a non-encrypted major website. For a multitiude of reasons. The ISPs revenue stream is gone, aside from knowing you went to WebMD to diagnose whatever plague you got from that hooker.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:32 pm to Centinel
quote:terrible logic to apply to privacy
And my counter to that is within five years or so you'll be hard-pressed to find a non-encrypted major website
quote:
aside from knowing you went to WebMD to diagnose whatever plague you got from that hooker.
Still constraining the possibilities to only what you want to
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 6:33 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:32 pm to Centinel
quote:
And the content providers are privy to the exact same information.
Next.
Oh really? Back on page 5 you were making the case that it was a fantasy that this type of offline information could be obtained and packaged into a data profile for a user.
The ability to reliably connect those data with your browsing history is what gives ISPs the upper hand. If I load up Dooble and browse around for an hour, Facebook and Google are completely oblivious to everything that I'm doing online assuming I'm not using their services.
My ISP, on the other hand, has information on every site I've visited - and can collate that information with offline information from data brokers to create premium data profiles. It wouldn't matter if my banking site is encrypted via HTTPs - they know with whom I'm doing my banking, and at what times, and how frequently, I visit the site. That's extremely valuable information.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:32 pm to Centinel
quote:Here is a list of 10
Name more than 4-5 search engines that are actually effective.
Regardless, one could allocate their searches across search engines. Harder to identify patterns. Can't do that with the ISP.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:34 pm to Swoopin
quote:
They operate as relative monopolies at the pleasure of whatever region/municipality that has allowed them entry and access to right of ways for laying infrastructure.
Not true anymore
Electricity. Solar, geothermal, wind, hydro, propane are now available
Phones. Cellular and Internet based are available
Internet. Satellite, cellular, cable co, phone co, Dish
Cable. Satellite, cord cutting, antennas are available
There are plenty of ways around govt monopolies
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:36 pm to Centinel
quote:
Name more than 4-5 search engines that are actually effective.
You see no difference in you yourself limiting your consumer choices based on quality, versus it being limited for you based on availability?
And even if you don't, two wrongs make a right?
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:44 pm to jeff5891
quote:
Still constraining the possibilities to only what you want to
Not really. Maybe I want to go search what fricked up disease my buddy told me he had. The only thing the ISP sees is I went to WebMD. You need more info to tailor an add for Valtrex or whatever. Now WebMD on the other hand.....
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