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Started By
Message
re: Strong on Second Amendment, Strongly Pro Choice
Posted on 8/23/19 at 6:53 pm to DeusVultMachina
Posted on 8/23/19 at 6:53 pm to DeusVultMachina
quote:
An unborn infant can be killed because not yet a citizen. Interesting.
Yeah. Caught that. Unforced error.
1
Posted on 8/23/19 at 6:55 pm to AggieHank86
quote:Um...……….say again?
non-sentient organism
Posted on 8/23/19 at 6:56 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Non sequitur. Your reasoning would apply ONLY if the STATE were COMPELLING abortion. The State is only allowing a citizen to CHOOSE a course of action.
Hmm. I suspect if the state funded my wife's hitman to kill me, it would qualify as state sanction even though the state didn't force my wife or the hitman to kill me.
Posted on 8/23/19 at 6:58 pm to ShortyRob
quote:Read more closely. I cited the P.I clause, not the due process clausequote:Yeah. Caught that. Unforced error.
An unborn infant can be killed because not yet a citizen. Interesting.
Posted on 8/23/19 at 7:00 pm to AggieHank86
quote:Honestly irrelevant.
Read more closely. I cited the P.I clause, not the due process clause
Nevertheless. I'm not really up for a pages long abortion debate.
Abortion is going to be banned fully in America soon enough. Maybe not before I die. But it will be. And the ones who will push it over the top will be liberals the moment people figure out how to test for shite in vitro that liberals consider abhorrent reasons to abort.
You can take that shite to the bank.
Posted on 8/23/19 at 7:01 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
No. It gives a citizen the ability to decide whether to deprive another organism of life. The 14th precludes the State from DIRECTLY depriving life, liberty or property. Unless the State is trying to FORCE an abortion, the STATE is NOT doing so.
If this is the case then on what basis have the states and federal governments attached any regulation at all to abortion?
Posted on 8/23/19 at 7:04 pm to ShortyRob
quote:It depends on the poll and the question they are asked.
Women are actually more likely to be pro life than men
For example, a Gallup found in a May 2018 poll that 26 percent of men said they favored access to legal abortion under all circumstances, while 31 percent of women said they agreed.
Posted on 8/23/19 at 7:06 pm to texridder
quote:More women agree with pro-life restrictions.
For example, a Gallup found in a May 2018 poll that 26 percent of men said they favored access to legal abortion under all circumstances, while 31 percent of women said they agreed.
I know you know this. That's why you pulled out only the subset who are for abortion no matter what.
And, of course, it's also humorous that I posted that they are more likely to be pro-life and then you reversed the response to focus on the subset of pro-choice.
Are you EVER intellectually honest? Typical
This post was edited on 8/23/19 at 7:08 pm
Posted on 8/23/19 at 7:07 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
It gives a citizen the ability to decide whether to deprive another organism of life.
You say abortion is constitutional b/c 14A.
We had a reasonable discussion about our disagreement over personhood...
Aaaaand then you drop this nonsense.
This is your interpretation of the 14th amendment?
Hmmm.
Posted on 8/23/19 at 7:09 pm to baybeefeetz
Women have every right to do what they want with THEIR bodies. However, if pregnant, the body inside their body is the baby's body- not theirs.
Posted on 8/23/19 at 7:12 pm to davyjones
quote:Federal? It should not be able to do so. Almost 100 years of courts who do not understand the nature of federalism.
If this is the case then on what basis have the states and federal governments attached any regulation at all to abortion?
States? 10A
Posted on 8/23/19 at 7:17 pm to DeusVultMachina
quote:No. This is far too complex a discussion to undertake with just two fingers. I simply am not going to try to explain something that would take me ten hours to type with one hand.
You say abortion is constitutional b/c 14A.
We had a reasonable discussion about our disagreement over personhood...
Aaaaand then you drop this nonsense.
This is your interpretation of the 14th amendment?
Hmmm.
I do not think the Constitution gives the federal government any authority to play any role whatsoever in the abortion debate, making it correctly a state issue. Wrongly-decided-Roe says otherwise.
As such, the 14A P.I clause does not protect the fetus, bc fetus not citizen with rights. The due process clause does not protect fetus' "life" bc the State is not compelling abortion/ Only if hitman analogy applies would personhood of fetus come into play. THAT is where the vestig analysis woud come into play
This post was edited on 8/23/19 at 7:25 pm
Posted on 8/23/19 at 7:21 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
For example, a Gallup found in a May 2018 poll that 26 percent of men said they favored access to legal abortion under all circumstances, while 31 percent of women said they agreed.
More women agree with pro-life restrictions.
I know you know this. That's why you pulled out only the subset who are for abortion no matter what.
Fuk you a-hole. I said was it depends on the poll and the question that was asked.
Why didn't you include that when you were quoting my post? Because it would make your response look like it came from a complete ignoramus??
If you think I did a bunch of research to make a response to a clown like you, you are impaired.
Actually, you are impaired either way.
Posted on 8/23/19 at 7:23 pm to AggieHank86
Its all good.
1)We disagree over personhood definition.
2) And we disagree over the governmental power to allow a human to destroy another human without allowing the pretext of protection of the victimized human's right to life.
3) And we disagree in what constitutes government sanctioned action, as tax and funding clearly do indicate government sanction.
1)We disagree over personhood definition.
2) And we disagree over the governmental power to allow a human to destroy another human without allowing the pretext of protection of the victimized human's right to life.
3) And we disagree in what constitutes government sanctioned action, as tax and funding clearly do indicate government sanction.
Posted on 8/23/19 at 7:23 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Science and the law support my factual statement.
You may have the law on your side but you certainly do not have science on your side. What twisted logic do you use to say that science is on your side?
Posted on 8/23/19 at 7:23 pm to texridder
quote:Says the guy who AGAIN, played the whole "let's shift the point away from the point made" game.
Fuk you a-hole.
quote:Simple
Why didn't you include that when you were quoting my post? Because it would make your response look like it came from a complete ignoramus??
Because the question I addressed was how many women are pro life. Not how many are rabidly pro-choice under all situations.
You knew that. You knew my point was valid.
So, you just did what you always do...……….a-hole
Posted on 8/23/19 at 7:25 pm to AggieHank86
quote:Twenty words or less (or more) what is the basis for it being a purely state issue?
I do not think the Constitution gives the federal government any authority to play any role whatsoever in the abortion debate, making it correctly a state issue. Wrongly-decided-Roe says otherwise.
Posted on 8/23/19 at 7:30 pm to texridder
quote:
Twenty words or less (or more) what is the basis for it being a purely state issue?
I don't actually agree that it is only a state issue.
That said. Everything should be default a state issue unless one can validate why it is a federal issue.
The default shouldn't be Federal unless one can prove it's a state. It should be state unless one can support it being federal.
Posted on 8/23/19 at 7:33 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
If this is the case then on what basis have the states and federal governments attached any regulation at all to abortion?
quote:
Federal? It should not be able to do so.
That's certainly fair opinion. Maybe I didnt pose the question in the best way. Ultimately what I was getting at is the 14th is of course very involved as it is both the basis for the right to abortion (liberty), as well as the basis of the opposing viability/right to life and due process argument.
Related, Id say that given advancements in science/med/health, there's likely a case to at least revisit the viability issue. Captain Obvious here, I know.
This post was edited on 8/23/19 at 7:35 pm
Posted on 8/23/19 at 7:35 pm to baybeefeetz
I am strong on the 2A AND strong on Pro Choice yes.
I am anti abortion except in the most egregious of incidents but it's really up to the woman. I've had long talks with all of my daughters about this and they very intelligently convinced me of not only their right to choose, (and none of them would have abortions but they do believe they should have the right) but other rights like the right to euthanasia and the right for men to have a say so if there is no incest or rape involved.
They are all staunchly I'm favor of 2A rights as well, even my oldest liberal progressive daughter.
Where my oldest daughter and I fiercely disagree is when it comes to who should pay for abortions. I believe taxpayers should in no way pay one single penny while she believes Planned Parenthood should continue to be funded by the government to provide abortions for the sake of of the disadvantaged and underprivileged.
My other two daughters side with me on that issue.
The question always is .... what rights do males have?
I am anti abortion except in the most egregious of incidents but it's really up to the woman. I've had long talks with all of my daughters about this and they very intelligently convinced me of not only their right to choose, (and none of them would have abortions but they do believe they should have the right) but other rights like the right to euthanasia and the right for men to have a say so if there is no incest or rape involved.
They are all staunchly I'm favor of 2A rights as well, even my oldest liberal progressive daughter.
Where my oldest daughter and I fiercely disagree is when it comes to who should pay for abortions. I believe taxpayers should in no way pay one single penny while she believes Planned Parenthood should continue to be funded by the government to provide abortions for the sake of of the disadvantaged and underprivileged.
My other two daughters side with me on that issue.
The question always is .... what rights do males have?
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