re: Stop acting like we’re not a democracy, we’re a republic. We’re both.

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Your local elections are the closet to a real democracy we have.

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That depends on the issue, but they permit more access to that style of voting due to the lower population, sure. I still vote for city council, parish reps, the mayor, judges, sheriff, etc. There's a lot of republican aspects to local elections, too.

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Except, the representatives you vote for arent beholden to you, they are beholden to big interest just like the federal govt.

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That was my point, Rog.

He was arguing only democracy faces these issues.

I argued our representatives are just as likely to be pawns of the "shadow oligarchy". We agree on this point.

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Are you a marxist?

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I'm one of the few freedom-promoting people left on this board, so no.

One of my biggest criticisms of Trump is his Marxist/Leftist economic policies.

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I argued our representatives

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A "representative democracy" at best, is what we have.



Muted to circumvent the idiocy of a true democracy/

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A "representative democracy" at best, is what we have.



Muted to circumvent the idiocy of a true democracy/

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Correct. That's what both OP and myself are arguing.

What you pointed out about our representatives is what I did in response to Mr. Meltdown, disposing of his point that only democracy faces this issue:

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if you understand democracy is simply and purely shadow oligarchy

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That was how he based his logic and it's wrong. You and I both agree on that point, because we both agree that our reps are as subject (if not more) to this "shadow oligarchy"

But yes, since we vote to elect these reps, it makes our system a representative democracy, or a democratic republic. 2 of the 4 major aspects of our system (constitutional and federal being the other 2).

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I'm one of the few freedom-promoting people left on this board, so no.

One of my biggest criticisms of Trump is his Marxist/Leftist economic policies.

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Compared to the dims he is John Birch re-animated.

I don't agree with tariffs in principle and they are anti free market but we have lost so much manufacturing to our mortal enemy china, who is for all intents and purposes a command economy. We have to come up to more of a war footing to match their moves. We cannot ignore this any more.


The dims have also brought in so many social programs and any attempts to remove them will be political suicide. Which brings us to our biggest threat, our debt.

Sounds like you are an extreme social liberal.

Trump is a deal make and patriot. My fear in his first term was that if the repubs wouldn't deal with Trump he would work with dims. I thought that he governed as the best president since Reagan. And the leftward leap by the dims should prevent any freedom lover from ever considering the dims!

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Compared to the dims he is John Birch re-animated.

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Then that should answer your question more fully.

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The dims have also brought in so many social programs and any attempts to remove them will be political suicide. Which brings us to our biggest threat, our debt.

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Trump has no plan for our debt and proposes more spending in 2 of the 4/5 programs (Social Security, Military) that we have to cut to make an impact.

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Sounds like you are an extreme social liberal.

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Not personally, but, as I said, I am freedom-promoting and want small government.

I'd wager Trump has historically been much more socially liberal in terms of personal beliefs than I am.

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Libs are always trying to save democracy. Don’t see anything about a Republic.

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The democratic part is the one personal to citizens. That's why. That's how citizens directly participate in the process/politics.

I'll give an example near and dear the hearts and minds of this board. People on here always bitch about the "GOPE" or how "Republicans" don't actually represent the interests of their constituents (a problem with the republican aspect of our system). How do they suggest fixing this problem? Voting in new reps who they believe will represent their interests (the democratic aspect of the system).

What is the #1 fear-based topic about the system since the 2020 election? Leftits/DEMs eroding our democratic systems (voter fraud). So yeah it's important for MAGA, too.

The lovely part is that in a Constitutional Republic you can believe that our Government is a Democracy if you would like and no one can take that away from you, provided elected reps actually adhere to their contract with We the People.

In a Democracy, you call it what 51% say you call it.

I'm fine with saying we have a democratic election system.

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I will prove that we're a democracy and a republic by voting for President in a few weeks

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And we will prove it is a republic, and purposefully NOT a democracy by electing President Trump, who will have fewer votes than Heels Up.

The Founding Fathers abhorred democracy, as it is the antithesis of freedom and liberty.

Right now I would say we’re nothing close to either one. We have an entrenched oligarchy and picking a frontman every four years who does their bidding